10 December 2023

Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott

5Frameworks

15Insights

Episode overview

Kim Scott explains Radical Candor as caring personally while challenging directly, contrasting it with obnoxious aggression, manipulative insincerity, and the especially common failure of ruinous empathy. She and Lenny Rachitsky turn the framework into practical guidance for giving timely, specific feedback and soliciting criticism with an authentic question, silence, follow-up questions, and a tangible response. Scott also discusses career conversations, workplace bias and bullying, and why respectful candor supports stronger relationships and better work.

Key ideas

Radical Candor combines caring personally with challenging directly; neglecting either dimension produces obnoxious aggression, manipulative insincerity, or ruinous empathy.
Ruinous empathy is the most common failure because avoiding short-term discomfort can deny people information they need and damage the wider team.
Useful feedback should be humble, helpful, timely, synchronous, specific to behavior rather than personality, and adjusted according to how it lands.
The CORE structure grounds feedback in context, observation, result, and a next step.
To solicit criticism, ask an authentic and specific question, tolerate the silence, listen to understand, and reward candor through action or respectful disagreement.
Managers should solicit feedback regularly from direct reports, peers, and bosses while giving praise and criticism close to the relevant moment.
Career conversations can connect a person's past motivations and future aspirations to a concrete plan for developing useful skills.
Respect is a prerequisite for candor, and leaders, harmed colleagues, bystanders, and culprits all have roles in creating respectful workplaces.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Communication4 steps

CORE Feedback Structure

Context, Observation, Result, Next Step — feedback about behavior, never personality

Read →

Communication4 steps

Gauge How It Lands

Read the reaction in real time and adjust which axis you move on — sad/mad means move up on care

Read →

Leadership4 steps

Soliciting Feedback: The Order of Operations

Ask a go-to question, count to six, listen to understand, then reward the candor

Read →

Leadership3 steps

The Radical Candor 2x2

Care personally AND challenge directly — the two axes that place every act of feedback

Read →

Leadership3 steps

The Three Career Conversations

Past, dreams, and action plan — three 45-minute conversations to show you care and grow people

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 20

Kim ScottMentionsI think radical Candor by Kim Scott is just incredible
“today my guest is Kim Scott Kim is the author of radical cander”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
Russ LarawayCoinedhe and I worked together at Google and then we started a company together
“did you read the book uh when they win win by Russ lway”
▶ Watch at ~35:00approx.
Pete KazanjyMentionsPete is the author of my single favorite book on sales called Founding Sales.
“there's one that came in from Pete kazandi”
▶ Watch at ~36:00approx.
Christa QuarlesMentionsCEO of open table
“I was working with Christa quarls when she was CEO of open table”
▶ Watch at ~38:30approx.
Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter
“what do you like to ask Lenny”
▶ Watch at ~40:30approx.
Jason RosoffMentionsmy co-founder at radical cander
“Jason rosof my co-founder at radical cander likes to ask”
▶ Watch at ~41:00approx.
Andy GroveMentionsBusiness leader cited for distinguishing competency from motivation.
“Andy Grove who who was the CEO of Intel said”
▶ Watch at ~42:00approx.
Jules WalterMentionsJules is a product leader at YouTube. Before that, he spent 4 and 1/2 years at Slack, where he was their first growth PM
“I had Jules Walter in the podcast I always think of him when I think of getting feedback”
▶ Watch at ~49:30approx.
Charlie MungerMentionsHis words and documents were assembled into Poor Charlie's Almanack.
“I was just reading Charlie munger's book”
▶ Watch at ~53:30approx.
Ray DalioCoinedRay dalio had this passage in one of his books
“I did an analysis of Delio's book principles”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:00approx.
Tim CookMentionsmentioned
“when he got cancer Tim Cook offered to give him half his liver”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:00approx.
Steve JobsMentionsSteve Jobs is just uh the bar he held for the company and for technical talent and for excellence was not uh wavering.
“when I worked at Apple you could see Steve and Johnny talking you could tell these people cared about each other”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:30approx.
Jony IveMentionsFormer Apple head of industrial design and chief design officer who influenced Chesky's operating model.
“when I worked at Apple you could see Steve and Johnny talking you could tell these people cared about each other”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:30approx.
Walter IsaacsonCoinedmentioned
“I like Walter isaacson's work a lot but he falls prey to this in his in his biography of Elon Musk”
▶ Watch at ~1:06:30approx.
Elon MuskMentionsWhether you like him or not, Elon, this is similar to his um if you watch him, he has sets these really ambitious goals
“the new biography of Elon Musk falls into this category”
▶ Watch at ~1:06:30approx.
Toni MorrisonRecommendssuch a brilliant brilliant writer
“anything that Tony Morrison wrote the blue asai is one of my favorite but also Song of Solomon”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
Virginia WoolfCoinedI I love Mrs. Dalloway, actually.
“Orlando by Virginia wolf is another one of my another one of my favorites”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
Robertson DaviesCoinedmentioned
“Roberts and Davies uh the depford trilogy is an incredible set of novels to read”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
Alice WalkerCoinedmentioned
“Alice Walker The Color Purple is another one of my very favorite books”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
Shonda RhimesRecommendsthe year of yes by shaer ryes
“Shonda Rhymes I mean watch her Ted Talk amazing person”
▶ Watch at ~1:19:00approx.

Resources · 44

AdSenseMentionsproduct · Google
“she led AdSense YouTube and double click teams at Google”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
GoogleMentionscompany · Google
“she led AdSense YouTube and double click teams at Google”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
DoubleClickMentionscompany
“she led AdSense YouTube and double click teams at Google”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
Radical CandorCoinedbook · Kim Scott
“Kim is the author of radical cander”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
YouTubeMentionswebsite · Google
“she led AdSense YouTube and double click teams at Google”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
DropboxMentionscompany · Drew Houston and Arash Ferdowsi
“Kim was a COO coach at Dropbox qual Trix Twitter and many other tech companies”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
QualtricsMentionssoftware
“Kim was a COO coach at Dropbox qual Trix Twitter and many other tech companies”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
TwitterMentionswebsite · Twitter
“Kim was a COO coach at Dropbox qual Trix Twitter and many other tech companies”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
Apple UniversityMentionscourse · Apple
“she was a member of The Faculty at Apple University”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
Radical RespectCoinedbook · Kim Scott
“she's also working on a new book that you can pre-order now called radical respect”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
AtlassianMentionscompany
“jira product Discovery the new prioritization and Road mapping tool built for product teams by atlassian”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
Jira Product DiscoveryRecommendssoftware · Atlassian
“introducing jira product Discovery the new prioritization and Road mapping tool built for product teams by atlassian”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
JiraUsessoftware · Atlassian
“it's all built on jira where your engineering team is already working”
▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
Radical CandorRecommendsbook · Kim Scott
“your book radical cander is the single most recommended book on this podcast”
▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
The OfficeMentionstv show · Greg Daniels
“if you watch the office or any show about problems at work”
▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
University of ChicagoMentionscompany
“there's a lot of evidence coming out of University of Chicago”
▶ Watch at ~17:00approx.
SlackUsessoftware · Slack Technologies
“I once coached some one who kept giving feedback over slack”
▶ Watch at ~18:00approx.
When They Win, You WinRecommendsbook · Russ Laraway
“did you read the book uh when they win win by Russ lway”
▶ Watch at ~35:00approx.
OpenTableMentionscompany
“I was working with Christa quarls when she was CEO of open table”
▶ Watch at ~38:30approx.
IntelMentionscompany
“Andy Grove who who was the CEO of Intel”
▶ Watch at ~42:00approx.
ColumboMentionstv show · Richard Levinson and William Link
“we both got it from Columbo the detective show”
▶ Watch at ~42:30approx.
AppleMentionscompany · Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, and Ronald Wayne
“I was working at Apple at the time”
▶ Watch at ~42:30approx.
NetflixMentionscompany · Netflix
“squid games the reality show on Netflix”
▶ Watch at ~47:30approx.
Squid Game: The ChallengeUsestv show · Netflix
“I just watching squid games the reality show on Netflix”
▶ Watch at ~47:30approx.
Bridgewater AssociatesMentionscompany
“maybe the extreme of the obnoxious aggressiveness is Bridgewater”
▶ Watch at ~1:01:00approx.
The FundRecommendsbook · Rob Copeland
“did you read the book The fund no not yet you must read it it's all about Bridgewater”
▶ Watch at ~1:01:00approx.
PrinciplesMentionsbook · Ray Dalio
“I did an analysis of Delio's book principles”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:00approx.
Elon Musk (book)Mentionsbook · Walter Isaacson
“the new biography of Elon Musk falls into this category”
▶ Watch at ~1:06:30approx.
AmazonMentionscompany · Jeff Bezos
“you can you can pre-order it on Amazon or Barnes Noble”
▶ Watch at ~1:14:30approx.
Barnes & NobleMentionscompany
“you can you can pre-order it on Amazon or Barnes Noble”
▶ Watch at ~1:14:30approx.
Radical RespectRecommendsbook · Kim Scott
“please do buy radical respect”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:00approx.
MiddlemarchRecommendsbook · George Eliot
“some of my favorite novels are Middle March I try to read that reread that uh uh all the time”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
The Bluest EyeRecommendsbook · Toni Morrison
“anything that Tony Morrison wrote the blue asai is one of my favorite”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
Song of SolomonRecommendsbook · Toni Morrison
“but also Song of Solomon uh it it just such a brilliant brilliant writer”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
OrlandoRecommendsbook · Virginia Woolf
“Orlando by Virginia wolf is another one of my another one of my favorites”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
The Deptford TrilogyRecommendsbook · Robertson Davies
“Roberts and Davies uh the depford trilogy is an incredible set of novels to read”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
The Color PurpleRecommendsbook · Alice Walker
“Alice Walker The Color Purple is another one of my very favorite books”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
Grey's AnatomyUsestv show · Shonda Rhimes
“I watched all 19 seasons of Gray's Anatomy with my with my daughter”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:30approx.
Attitude shampoo and conditioner barsRecommendsproduct · ATTITUDE
“it's called attitude and there's shampoo bars and conditioner bars so it comes in cardboard wrapped in paper there's no plastic”
▶ Watch at ~1:21:00approx.
Lazare Kaplan InternationalMentionscompany
“this diamond company called lazara Kaplan new york-based diamond company”
▶ Watch at ~1:23:00approx.
RadicalCandor.comRecommendswebsite · Kim Scott
“radical. comom is our website”
▶ Watch at ~1:25:00approx.
Lenny's PodcastMentionspodcast · Lenny Rachitsky
“you can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at Lenny podcast.com”
▶ Watch at ~1:26:00approx.
Apple PodcastsRecommendssoftware · Apple Inc.
“you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcast Spotify or your favorite podcast app”
▶ Watch at ~1:26:00approx.
SpotifyRecommendssoftware · Spotify
“you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcast Spotify or your favorite podcast app”
▶ Watch at ~1:26:00approx.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster1:06:30

You Don't Have to Choose Between Being a Jerk and Being Nice

Kim calls out the false dichotomy — reinforced by biographies like Isaacson's of Elon Musk — that leaders must be either a competent jerk or a nice incompetent. Radical candor is the third path that works better and doesn't hurt people. Leaning into genuine care, she argues, gets more out of people, not less.

The 'jerk-but-competent vs. nice-but-incompetent' choice is a myth
Isaacson's Musk biography falls into this trap
Caring deeply can make leaders even more successful, not less

“there's this notion that we have to choose between being a total jerk but really competent or you know really nice but incompetent and those…”
Kim Scott · 1:06:30

“you do not have to choose between being successful and being a jerk you can be a successful kind person”
Kim Scott · 1:16:30

#leadership#myths#radical-candor

Hot Take· 4

Hot Take15:30

Say 'Candor' Not 'Truth' — You Might Be Wrong

Kim argues that framing feedback as 'the truth' implies you have a pipeline to God and the other person knows nothing. She prefers 'candor,' which treats feedback as a dialogue rather than a monologue and leaves room for you to be wrong. Omniscience, she says, is not a requirement for radical candor.

Announcing you'll tell 'the truth' signals dominance and shuts down dialogue
Candor means 'here's how I understand it, and I'm curious how you see it'
You should go into feedback conversations humble and open to being wrong

“if I March into a room and I say Lenny I'm GNA tell you the truth I'm kind of implying you know I've got a…”
Kim Scott · 15:30

#feedback#communication#humility

Hot Take17:00

Give Feedback by Phone, Not Video or Slack

Kim recommends delivering feedback synchronously and, surprisingly, favors the phone over video. Citing research out of the University of Chicago, she says facial expressions and body language carry more noise than signal, so the phone forces you to listen to the actual words. Slack, she says, is a feedback disaster.

Feedback must be synchronous so you can gauge how it's landing
There's more noise than signal in facial expressions and body language
The phone may be one of our best communication innovations because it makes you listen to words
She once quit coaching someone who kept giving feedback over Slack

“there's more noise than signal in facial expressions and Body Language”
Kim Scott · 17:30

“slack is just a a a feedback train wreck waiting to happen”
Kim Scott · 18:00

#feedback#communication#remote-work

Hot Take1:01:00

Bridgewater's Feedback Culture Is 'Deep Dark Obnoxious Aggression'

Kim relays a firsthand anecdote about Bridgewater, where she was once recruited. A colleague described a meeting where a woman who made a mistake was piled on with personal attacks until she cried, and the recording was then emailed company-wide as a model of good feedback. Kim calls this deep, dark obnoxious aggression — the opposite of radical candor.

Bridgewater's criticism was personal, not about the work
A crying employee's meeting was recorded and shared company-wide as an example
Kim's analysis of Dalio's 'Principles' found only a few pages about caring for people

“these are your personality attributes that make you a useless human being”
Kim Scott · 1:02:30

“that is like deep dark obnoxious aggression that is not radical cander that is horrible”
Kim Scott · 1:03:00

#obnoxious-aggression#bridgewater#feedback-culture

Hot Take1:03:30

Why Steve Jobs Isn't Elon Musk or Ray Dalio

Pushing back on the idea that harsh leaders like Elon Musk and Ray Dalio prove candor without care works, Kim separates Steve Jobs from that group. Jobs could be aggressive but built such deep relationships that Tim Cook offered him half his liver — something she can only call love. Radical candor, she notes, is measured at the listener's ear, not the speaker's mouth.

Jobs built real, caring relationships with his direct reports
Tim Cook offered Jobs half his liver when he had cancer
Candor is measured by how it's received, not how it's delivered
Kim rates Musk and Dalio as making far more egregious mistakes than Jobs

“he built such good relationships with his direct reports that when he got cancer Tim Cook offered to give him half his liver and I…”
Kim Scott · 1:04:00

“radical caner gets measured not at you know not at the speaker's mouth but at the listener's ear”
Kim Scott · 1:04:30

#leadership#steve-jobs#elon-musk#care-personally

Story· 6

Story09:00

The Boss Who Told Kim She Sounded Stupid

Kim recounts giving an AdSense presentation to Google's founders and CEO in 2004, walking out feeling like a genius. Her boss walked her back to the office and, after Kim brushed off gentle hints, told her plainly that saying 'um' every third word made her sound stupid. Kim credits this as the kindest thing done for her career, because it finally got her to a speech coach.

Kim thought she was great at presentations after raising millions for two startups
The boss escalated her directness only after Kim kept brushing off the softer feedback
The bluntness worked because the boss knew Kim well enough that softer words wouldn't land
Kim realized she'd gone her whole career with no one telling her the obvious problem

“when you say um every third word it makes you sound stupid”
Kim Scott · 11:30

“I'd been marching through my whole career with a giant hunk of spinach in between my teeth and nobody had had the common courtesy to…”
Kim Scott · 12:00

#feedback#leadership#google#career

Story20:30

Bob: How Ruinous Empathy Cost Kim Her Best People

Kim tells the story of Bob, a charming, funny hire whose work was riddled with sloppy mistakes. For ten months she praised him instead of confronting the problem, partly to protect his feelings and partly to protect her own reputation. By the time she had to fire him, Bob asked why nobody had told him, and Kim realized her 'niceness' had hurt Bob and driven her top performers to the brink of quitting.

Kim softened feedback for ten months to avoid hurting a well-liked employee
Part of the silence was self-protective manipulative insincerity about her own reputation
The whole team suffered redoing Bob's late, sloppy work
Failing to give hard feedback risks losing your best performers, not just the weak one

“why didn't anyone tell me I thought you all cared about me”
Kim Scott · 25:00

“by not telling Bob thinking I was being so nice I'm having to fire him as a result not so nice after all”
Kim Scott · 25:30

#ruinous-empathy#management#feedback#firing

Story44:30

'I Wish You Weren't the Radical Candor Lady'

At breakfast, Kim's daughter told her she wished Kim weren't the radical candor lady. Kim's first instinct was guilt about working too much, but instead of reacting she asked a follow-up question. Her daughter clarified she wished Kim would mind her own business — a demonstration of listening to understand rather than jumping to conclusions.

Kim's instinct was to assume the criticism was about working too much
Asking a follow-up question revealed the real meaning
Listening with intent to understand beats reacting to your own assumptions

“I wish you weren't the radical cander lady”
Kim Scott · 45:00

“I wish you were the lady who minded her own business”
Kim Scott · 45:00

#feedback#listening#parenting

Story1:11:30

The Feedback That Made Kim Write 'Radical Respect'

After a talk, a Black woman CEO told Kim that rolling out radical candor was harder for her: whenever she offered even gentle criticism, people called her an angry Black woman. Kim realized she'd failed to notice the bias her colleague faced, failed to acknowledge her own experiences of bias, and had sometimes been a culprit herself — which prompted her next book, 'Radical Respect.'

Bias meant identical feedback landed the CEO in unfair 'angry Black woman' territory
Kim admitted she'd failed to be an upstander for her colleague
She'd also been in denial about bias she experienced and harm she caused
'Radical Respect' is framed as the prequel to 'Radical Candor'

“as soon as she would offer folks even the most gentle compassionate criticism they would call her an angry black woman”
Kim Scott · 1:12:30

#bias#radical-respect#leadership#feedback

Story1:21:30

'It's Not Mean, It's Clear': The Origin of Radical Candor

Kim shares the origin story of radical candor. Walking her dog in Manhattan, a stranger who saw her nearly get the dog hit told her, with care, that she'd kill the dog if she didn't teach it to sit — then commanded 'sit,' and the dog sat. When Kim looked amazed, he said 'it's not mean, it's clear' and walked off, leaving her with words to live by.

A stranger established care first ('I can tell you love that dog')
He was directly clear ('you're going to kill that dog if you don't teach her to sit')
The phrase 'it's not mean, it's clear' became the seed of radical candor

“you're going to kill that dog if you don't teach her to sit”
Kim Scott · 1:22:00

“it's not mean it's clear”
Kim Scott · 1:22:00

#radical-candor#origin-story#clarity

Story1:22:30

The Moscow Diamond Factory That Taught Kim Management

Kim explains her unlikely first management job: starting a diamond-cutting factory in Moscow after studying Russian literature. She assumed paying in dollars during the ruble's collapse would make hiring easy, but the cutters wanted a picnic and a bottle of vodka first. She learned that what she could offer beyond money was to genuinely give a damn about them — the moment she realized management matters and depends on caring about people.

Kim studied Russian literature and knew nothing about management going in
The cutters didn't jump at dollars; they wanted to see if she'd care about them
They wanted a manager who'd get them out of Russia if things went sideways
The experience taught her that being good at management requires caring about people

“what I could offer that the state could not offer them was to give a damn about them”
Kim Scott · 1:24:00

#management#career#story#caring

Tool· 2

Tool35:00

'When They Win, You Win' for Career Conversations

When discussing how to run meaningful career conversations, Kim recommends the book 'When They Win, You Win' by Russ Laway, her former Google colleague and co-founder. She notes it dedicates roughly 100 pages to career conversations and includes tools to help managers.

Author is Russ Laway, Kim's co-founder at Radical Candor
Contains around 100 pages specifically on career conversations
Includes practical tools to help managers run those conversations

“he has a 100 pages on Career conversations”
Kim Scott · 35:00

#books#career-conversations#management

Tool1:17:00

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway43:30

Count to Six: There's No Emotional Novocain

Kim says no question, however well-crafted, spares the other person discomfort when giving feedback — there's no emotional Novocain. The simplest way to draw out an honest answer after asking is to close your mouth and count to six, because almost nobody can endure six full seconds of silence without filling it.

No magic wording removes the discomfort of giving or getting feedback
After asking, stay silent and count to six
Six seconds feels very long and usually prompts the person to say something

“there's no such thing as emotional Novocain”
Kim Scott · 43:30

“simplest way to embrace the discomfort is to close your mouth and count to six”
Kim Scott · 43:30

#feedback#communication#tactics

Takeaway47:00

Disagreement Doesn't Threaten Relationships — Silence Does

Kim reframes conflict: it isn't disagreement that endangers a relationship, it's unspoken disagreement. When you get feedback you disagree with, name the part you can agree with, then say you want to think about it and come back with a respectful explanation. Many of her best professional relationships began with a good, respectful disagreement.

Find the 5-10% you can agree with and voice it first
Say you'll think about the rest and then actually follow up
Unspoken disagreement, not disagreement itself, is what damages relationships

“it's not disagreement that poses a risk to our relationships it's unspoken disagreement”
Kim Scott · 47:30

#feedback#disagreement#relationships

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

CORE Feedback Structure

Gauge How It Lands

Soliciting Feedback: The Order of Operations

The Radical Candor 2x2

The Three Career Conversations

People & resources mentioned

People · 20

Resources · 44

Insights & moments

⚡Myth Buster· 1

You Don't Have to Choose Between Being a Jerk and Being Nice

◆Hot Take· 4

Say 'Candor' Not 'Truth' — You Might Be Wrong

Give Feedback by Phone, Not Video or Slack

Bridgewater's Feedback Culture Is 'Deep Dark Obnoxious Aggression'

Why Steve Jobs Isn't Elon Musk or Ray Dalio

❝Story· 6

The Boss Who Told Kim She Sounded Stupid

Bob: How Ruinous Empathy Cost Kim Her Best People

'I Wish You Weren't the Radical Candor Lady'

The Feedback That Made Kim Write 'Radical Respect'

'It's Not Mean, It's Clear': The Origin of Radical Candor

The Moscow Diamond Factory That Taught Kim Management

✦Tool· 2

'When They Win, You Win' for Career Conversations

Read More Novels to Build Compassion

▲Takeaway· 2

Count to Six: There's No Emotional Novocain

Disagreement Doesn't Threaten Relationships — Silence Does

Myth Buster· 1

Hot Take· 4

Story· 6

Tool· 2

Takeaway· 2