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Cameron Adams (co-founder and CPO)02 June 2024

Inside Canva: Coaches not managers, giving away your Legos, and running profitably

7Frameworks
14Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 3

Hot Take10:00

Canva's board meetings are one financial slide and the rest is product

Unusually for a company at Canva's scale, board meetings feature a single slide on financials and the rest is product updates and roadmap. Cam frames this as a deliberately crafted experience, made possible by years of strong financials and investors who believe product value is the most important thing they can drive. His view: financials matter, but product is what determines the company's success.

  • One slide on financials, the rest of the deck is product and roadmap
  • Board meetings are 'crafted' like any other Canva experience
  • Strong financials for years mean they don't need to dwell on them
  • Investors were chosen because they believe product value drives the business

we can just have that one slide with the graph going up and up and to the right

Cameron Adams · 11:00
#board#product-led#leadership#investors
Hot Take30:30

Canva spent a year on its MVP and ignored 'ship it crappy' advice

When Canva was building, the Lean Startup book had everyone urging them to ship something crappy fast. Cam pushed back: for Canva the product is the experience, and organic word-of-mouth growth depended on people feeling joy, which a crappy product wouldn't deliver. They spent a year building, backed by deep user testing and research, and even so had to launch something with rough edges. To Cam, a year actually seems short.

  • Everyone cited Lean Startup and told them to ship fast and crappy
  • For Canva the product IS the experience, driving word-of-mouth growth
  • A crappy product wouldn't have sparked the joy that spread Canva
  • Still did tons of user testing and feature research before launch
  • You always launch something you're not completely happy with

I think for us the product is the experience and giving people a great experience is an intrinsic part of the product

Cameron Adams · 31:00

one year to me actually seems like short time a lot of people think it's a long time

Cameron Adams · 33:30
#mvp#product#growth#launch
Hot Take33:30

Build for yourself, and only start companies in areas you love

Against common product advice, Cam says Canva builds for itself, and they're lucky to be their own customer, so they can quickly judge whether a feature has hit the bar. He also rejects the 'what's the best area to build a startup' framing: chasing an opportunity for money or external success in an area you aren't passionate about is a terrible way to found a company, because passion is what carries you through the rock-bottom moments.

  • Canva builds for itself because it is its own customer
  • Being your own customer lets you judge features fast
  • Picking a startup area just for money is the wrong approach
  • Passion is what gets founders through rock-bottom dark places
  • A product must spark joy, not just be a useful tool

even today we build for ourselves

Cameron Adams · 34:00

if you're in an area that you aren't particularly passionate about but you see the opportunity to make a bit of money or have some…

Cameron Adams · 35:30
#founders#product#passion#advice

Explainer· 6

Explainer14:00

The product you build shapes how your team thinks

Cam has a theory that the type of product you build shapes how a company thinks. Spotify, an auditory product, talks problems out in conversation; Canva, a visual-communications product, needs mockups, prototypes, and literal visions people can see. His advice to new hires: listen for a couple of months and understand why things work before trying to change them.

  • Spotify (auditory) hashes out features through conversation
  • Canva (visual) requires mockups and prototypes to communicate ideas
  • People who aren't visual thinkers can struggle to land at Canva
  • New hires should listen for months before importing outside playbooks
  • Coming in with 'I'm the expert' preconceptions gets rejected by the system

I have this theory that the type of product You're Building very much influences the way that you think

Cameron Adams · 14:00

the advice that I often give to people coming to camera is just listen for a couple of months

Cameron Adams · 16:00
#culture#product-thinking#onboarding
Explainer16:30

Giving away your Legos: handing off what you built to keep scaling

Cam explains the 'giving away your Legos' concept (popularized by Molly Graham) that he teaches in Canva's cultural onboarding. As the company scales, the job you own multiplies in complexity, so you have to hand off work you're good at and identify with. The example: the first email copywriter can't personally write emails for 100M people across 190 countries, so they must build teams and systems and find joy in enabling others instead.

  • Concept comes from Molly Graham's First Round Review article
  • Scaling multiplies complexity across product, processes, and teams
  • First email copywriter can't scale to 100M people in 190 countries alone
  • You must hand off work you built self-identity and joy around
  • The reward is joy in building teams and passing on experience

to constantly ratchet up that multiplier you need to change yourself which means that you probably need to give away some of the stuff that…

Cameron Adams · 18:00
#culture#scaling#delegation
Explainer20:00

Canva has coaches, not managers

Canva doesn't really have managers; instead every employee has a coach, a specialty lead in the same discipline who tracks their skills, trajectory, and when it's time to level up. There are close to 800-1,000 coaches, plus about five dedicated professional coaches for special situations, and a separate collegiate managerial circle handles 360 feedback. The system grew out of a formative external-coaching experience the founders had and now feeds into six-month performance review cycles.

  • Your coach is a same-specialty lead (a PM coaches PMs)
  • Coaches track skills, growth, and when to move to the next level
  • Close to 800-1,000 coaches across Canva, plus ~5 dedicated professional coaches
  • A separate collegiate managerial circle handles 360 feedback
  • The model came from an external coaching experience the founders valued
  • Feeds performance reviews run on six-month cycles

we don't really have managers um so you're coach is the person who thinks uh about you in a specialty sense

Cameron Adams · 21:30

everyone at canva has a coach that is constantly thinking about this aspect of their personal growth

Cameron Adams · 21:00
#culture#coaching#management#performance
Explainer44:30

Canva's SEO template strategy: jobs-to-be-done end to end

An SEO expert named Andre (who has come and gone from Canva several times) crystallized how SEO could actually drive growth cheaply. His team mapped users' motivations and top jobs-to-be-done, then designed the whole flow, from a Google search like 'Halloween poster' to the landing page, the template, easy customization, and download. Cam's point: product-led truly means product-led, because you can't SEO your way past a bad experience.

  • Andre crystallized SEO as a cheap, effective growth channel
  • His team studied user motivations and top jobs-to-be-done
  • Example: search 'Halloween poster' -> top result -> template -> download
  • The post-click product experience matters as much as the SEO technicals
  • You can't SEO your way past a terrible experience

he set up a whole team of people who looked at people's motivations and uh the top jobs to be done that canva could service

Cameron Adams · 45:30

product Le truly means product Le because you can't just SEO the hell out of something that is a terrible experience

Cameron Adams · 47:00
#seo#growth#jobs-to-be-done#product-led
Explainer50:30

Canva's freemium came from mission, and started as $1-per-element

For Canva, freemium wasn't primarily a growth or monetization play, it flowed from the mission to democratize design and get the tool into billions of hands, including people who can't pay. The original model was element sales: any asset you dragged into a design cost a dollar to export, which excited investors and stock-photo creators for the first two years. The first subscription (Canva for Work, now Canva Pro) drove hockey-stick revenue, and image payments were eventually folded into it.

  • Freemium stemmed from the mission to democratize design, not just revenue
  • Much of the world can't pay, so free access served equality
  • Original model: $1 per element used in an exported design
  • Element sales grew ~30% month-on-month for the first two years
  • First subscription launched ~3 years in and drove hockey-stick revenue
  • Image element payments were later folded into the subscription

premium for us wasn't so much a growth strategy or a monetization strategy as much as it spoke to our core mission of empowering the…

Cameron Adams · 51:00

it was all about create a design anything you use in that design will cost you a dollar

Cameron Adams · 52:00
#freemium#monetization#business-model#mission
Explainer54:30

Canva's three pillars for building with AI

Cam warns that AI can't be the basis of a product, you can't just wrap an LLM or slap a chatbot on something, and must instead think about what people actually want to do. Canva approaches AI through three pillars: build in-house tech where it has the most data and advantage, partner with the world's best (OpenAI, Runway ML) for commodity capabilities, and open its app ecosystem so AI developers can reach 170M monthly users. A seven-year machine-learning team now ships customer-facing visual AI.

  • AI can't be the product's basis; don't just wrap an LLM or add a chatbot
  • Pillar 1: build in-house AI where Canva has the most data and advantage
  • Pillar 2: partner with the best (OpenAI, Runway ML) for commodity AI
  • Pillar 3: open the app ecosystem to reach 170M monthly users
  • A ~7-year ML team moved from email recommendations to customer-facing visual AI

you can't just be a product that's purely built on AI on being being a rapper around an llm or something like that

Cameron Adams · 55:00

second pillar is just finding the world's best AI people to partner with

Cameron Adams · 57:00
#ai#product-strategy#partnerships#ecosystem

Story· 3

Story05:30

The lead investor cut Canva's valuation 50% two days before closing

Around Canva's $100M valuation round, every other investor had signed and even wired money, but the lead investor came back two days before closing and demanded a 50% valuation cut. Cam's co-founders Mel and Cliff flew to Silicon Valley overnight the week before Christmas and found a new lead in about a week, ultimately landing better terms. The scare cemented Canva's long-running focus on profitability so it never depends on outside money to survive.

  • Deal was around the $100M valuation mark, roughly Canva's third or fourth round
  • Every other investor had signed and wired money before the lead pulled the 50% cut
  • Co-founders rallied a new lead investor in about a week, the week before Christmas
  • They ended up with better terms than the original deal
  • The episode is a core reason Canva has stayed profitable for ~7 years

business is going great but essentially we think we can get a better deal so we're going to cut your valuation by 50%

Cameron Adams · 06:00

we never want to be put in the situation where we have to go someone have to go to someone for money to ensure the…

Cameron Adams · 07:00
#fundraising#profitability#startup-story#investors
Story37:30

How Canva found its first persona: social media managers' sheer joy

Canva didn't set out for social media managers; its mission was to democratize design for everyone. In the last six months before launch, user testing showed social media managers reacting with incredibly emotive language and sheer joy because Canva served a massive content need they couldn't otherwise meet. Canva leaned into that segment, shipping simple square/landscape/portrait and blog graphics first and adding everything else later.

  • Original mission was to democratize design for everyone, not a niche
  • Social media managers showed the most emotive, joyful reactions in testing
  • The signal was intensity of emotion, not just more excitement
  • First version shipped square/landscape/portrait and blog-post graphics
  • The target market was identified only in the last six months before launch

it was just incredibly emotive language like um sheer Joy particularly coming into the product

Cameron Adams · 39:30
#persona#product-market-fit#user-testing#growth
Story41:30

The 'search for a monkey' onboarding that unlocked Canva

Canva's product features were there, but a blank page made new users freak out, so the team obsessed over onboarding using UserTesting.com for fast results. The fix was a series of tiny surprising steps, starting with 'search for a monkey', that pulled people through building a design before they knew it. Users came out saying they didn't know they could do this, which taught Canva to lower barriers while increasing delight.

  • The blank page made new users freak out despite good features
  • UserTesting.com gave results in half an hour instead of formal labs
  • First step: click the search box and search for a monkey
  • Tiny surprising steps build a real design in three or four moves
  • Goal is lowering barriers to entry while increasing delight

the first one was click on this search box and search for a monkey

Cameron Adams · 42:00

the words that we literally got out of usit testing were I didn't know I could be a

Cameron Adams · 42:30
#onboarding#activation#user-testing#product

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway12:00

Why Canva hires homegrown over the world's best outside execs

Canva grew almost all its leaders internally and was slow to hire outside execs or outside Australia. Cam argues the world's best person at something fails if they don't fit the team, culture, and vision. Internally grown people who've built trust and can bring others along often get more done than a top external hire, and some external leaders exited within months for lack of fit.

  • Almost all Canva leaders are homegrown; outside-Australia hiring came late
  • Culture and team fit outweigh being the single best person at a skill
  • Trust, communication, and alignment make internal people more effective
  • Some external leaders exited within months because they never grasped Canva
  • At 4,500 employees, new leaders must work with existing leaders, not impose ideas

they mightn't be the number one person in the world for that particular thing but they get more done than the number one person could

Cameron Adams · 12:30
#hiring#culture#leadership
Takeaway48:00

Being Australian forced Canva to internationalize early

Because Australia's 25M-person market is too small to build a huge company on, Canva had to think globally and localized just three years after launch, early compared to peers. They aimed for five languages in the first year and hit eight, then targeted 100 languages and beat it by end of 2017. Internationalizing into markets like Brazil also reshaped the product, pushing Canva toward Android and mobile, and those markets now outgrow the US.

  • Australia's 25M market is too small to build a huge company on
  • Canva localized three years after launch, early for the industry
  • Goal of 5 languages in year one; they hit 8, then beat 100 by end of 2017
  • Brazil pushed Canva to focus far more on Android and mobile
  • Brazil, India, and Indonesia are top-five markets growing faster than the US

as an Australian company we're kind of fortunate in that Australia isn't a great Market to focus on

Cameron Adams · 48:00

Brazil India Indonesia they're all in our top five markets and they grow way faster than the US does

Cameron Adams · 50:00
#internationalization#growth#localization#mobile