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Matt Abrahams (professor, podcast host, author, speaker)31 March 2024

How to speak more confidently and persuasively

10Frameworks
15Insights

Episode overview

Stanford communication professor Matt Abrahams explains practical ways to reduce speaking anxiety, including visualization, cognitive reframing, breathing, mantras, and present-focused warmups. He argues that spontaneous speaking improves through preparation, repetition, reflection, feedback, and reusable structures that reduce cognitive load. The conversation applies those structures to small talk, feedback, toasts, Q&A, and apologies, emphasizing connection, authenticity, and concise delivery.

Key ideas

  • Strive for connection over perfection: lowering self-evaluation frees attention for the audience and the message.
  • Visualization can desensitize speakers by making the venue, audience, delivery, and successful conclusion feel familiar before the event.
  • Anxiety and excitement produce similar physical arousal, so labeling the sensations as excitement can improve confidence and perceived communication.
  • A longer exhale helps activate relaxation; Abrahams suggests exhaling for roughly twice as long as inhaling.
  • Spontaneous communication is trainable and should be prepared for through practice, much like athletics or jazz improvisation.
  • Structures such as PREP, “what–so what–now what,” and problem–solution–benefit make impromptu answers easier to formulate and remember.
  • Good small talk favors interested, supportive responses while maintaining an appropriate balance of personal disclosure.
  • Specific frameworks can guide common situations: four I's for feedback, WHAT for toasts, ADD for Q&A, and AAA for apologies.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Communication3 steps

Be Interested, Not Interesting

Play small talk like hacky sack: set the other person up to succeed and balance disclosure over time

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Communication3 steps

Dare to Be Dull

Strive for connection over perfection to free up cognitive bandwidth when speaking spontaneously

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Mindset3 steps

Reframe Anxiety as Excitement

Relabel the identical arousal response from nervous to excited to calm yourself and speak better

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Peak Performance3 steps

Speaking Visualization Rehearsal

Mentally rehearse the whole speaking event in advance to desensitize yourself and gain a sense of agency

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Communication3 steps

The ADD Answer Structure

Answer, Detailed example, Describe relevance: give complete, value-adding responses in Q&A

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Leadership4 steps

The Four I's Feedback Structure

Information, Impact, Invitation, Implications: package feedback so it lands as collaborative problem-solving

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Peak Performance3 steps

The Rule of Lung

Make your exhale twice as long as your inhale to trigger the relaxation response before speaking

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Communication3 steps

The Triple-A Apology

Acknowledge, Appreciate, Amend: apologize for the transgression, not for how someone feels

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Communication4 steps

The WHAT Toast Structure

Why we're here, How you're connected, Anecdote, Thank you: a GPS for any toast or tribute

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Communication3 steps

What / So What / Now What

A three-part structure that turns any on-the-spot update or answer into a memorable, digestible message

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People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 6

  • Matt AbrahamsMentionsMatt is a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business where he teaches a very popular class on communication and public speaking

    “today my guest is Matt Abrahams”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
  • Johnny MillerMentionsA prior podcast guest associated with a discussion of the nervous system.

    “another guest mentioned and we spent a bunch of time on this a guest named Johnny Miller”

    ▶ Watch at ~24:30approx.
  • Andrew HubermanMentionsNSDR was a practice coined by Andrew Huberman who you mentioned earlier.

    “I think huberman is big on this one all his Clips are always talking about this one”

    ▶ Watch at ~28:00approx.
  • Rachel GreenwaldCoinedshe's an interesting person she's an academic and a Matchmaker

    “the best advice I have ever heard for small talk came from a guest on my podcast her name's Rachel Greenwald”

    ▶ Watch at ~46:30approx.
  • Matthew DicksMentionshe helps people create their eulogy ahead of time before somebody passes away

    “have you had Matthew dicks on your podcast”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:02:00approx.
  • Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter

    “great pleasure to have the conversation with you Lenny I enjoyed it thoroughly”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:11:00approx.

Resources · 25

  • Stanford University Graduate School of BusinessMentionsplace

    “Matt is a professor at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
  • Think Fast, Talk SmartCoinedpodcast · Matt Abrahams

    “he's also the host of the incredibly popular podcast than fast talk smart”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • Think Faster, Talk SmarterCoinedbook · Matt Abrahams

    “the author of the very popular book think faster and talk smarter”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • NotionMentionssoftware · Notion Labs

    “NextGen product teams like figma and notion rely on Sprig to build products that people love”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • FigmaMentionssoftware · Figma

    “NextGen product teams like figma and notion rely on Sprig to build products that people love”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • SprigRecommendssoftware · Sprig

    “sprig is an AI powered platform that enables you to collect relevant product experience insights from the right users”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • DovetailRecommendssoftware · Dovetail

    “this episode is brought to you by duvail the customer insights hub for product teams”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
  • UberMentionscompany · Uber

    “you can hear from product leaders from Uber twitch meta and Netflix as they share their strategies for driving Innovation”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
  • NetflixMentionscompany · Netflix

    “you can hear from product leaders from Uber twitch meta and Netflix as they share their strategies for driving Innovation”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
  • MetaMentionscompany

    “you can hear from product leaders from Uber twitch meta and Netflix as they share their strategies for driving Innovation”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
  • TwitchMentionscompany

    “you can hear from product leaders from Uber twitch meta and Netflix as they share their strategies for driving Innovation”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
  • Insight OutMentionsevent · Dovetail

    “dovetail is holding their first industry conference it's called Insight out”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
  • The Brady BunchMentionstv show

    “The Brady Bunch advice is not good advice”

    ▶ Watch at ~6:00approx.
  • University of OregonMentionsplace

    “it was research done in the 80s from the University of Oregon”

    ▶ Watch at ~7:30approx.
  • TEDxUsesevent

    “I gave a tedex talk once and it was the probably the scariest talk I've ever given”

    ▶ Watch at ~9:30approx.
  • Harvard Business SchoolMentionsplace

    “Allison Woods Brooks She's at Harvard Business School”

    ▶ Watch at ~14:00approx.
  • Speaking Up Without Freaking OutCoinedbook · Matt Abrahams

    “after my speaking up without freaking out book came out”

    ▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
  • GoogleMentionscompany · Google

    “I coached a very senior leader at Google who got very nervous when he was up in front of people”

    ▶ Watch at ~23:00approx.
  • Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky

    “I use Koda every day to help me plan each episode of this very podcast”

    ▶ Watch at ~32:00approx.
  • CodaUsessoftware · Coda

    “I use Koda every day to help me plan each episode of this very podcast”

    ▶ Watch at ~32:00approx.
  • PinterestMentionscompany · Pinterest

    “product teams at high growth companies like Pinterest figma and qu trick run onoda”

    ▶ Watch at ~33:00approx.
  • QualtricsMentionssoftware

    “product teams at high growth companies like Pinterest figma and qu trick run onoda”

    ▶ Watch at ~33:00approx.
  • How to Win Friends and Influence PeopleRecommendsbook · Dale Carnegie

    “there's a book classic book How to Win Friends and Influence People which is very much about this highly recommend it”

    ▶ Watch at ~50:00approx.
  • YouTubeMentionswebsite · Google

    “you can find think fast talk smart wherever you get podcasts and on YouTube”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:10:30approx.
  • LinkedInUseswebsite · LinkedIn

    “I'm a huge user of LinkedIn”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:10:30approx.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster06:00

Picturing Your Audience Naked Is Bad Advice

Matt Abrahams rejects the old 'imagine everyone in their underwear' trick for public-speaking nerves. He says it doesn't calm anyone and that the useful kernel underneath it is visualization of yourself, not the audience half-dressed.

  • The 'Brady Bunch' / audience-in-underwear advice does not reduce anxiety
  • Nobody genuinely feels more comfortable imagining people in their underwear
  • The real value is visualization as desensitization, focused on yourself in the room

“The Brady Bunch advice is not good advice”

Matt Abrahams · 06:00
#public-speaking#anxiety#myths

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take30:30

Swearing Can Reduce Anxiety

Matt shares research that cursing releases a flood of neurochemicals — a dopamine and serotonin hit — that blunt anxiety chemicals like cortisol, and even has an analgesic effect. He's not advising an on-stage F-bomb, but says a curse beforehand can genuinely help.

  • Swearing releases neurochemicals that blunt anxiety chemicals, cortisol being a big one
  • It produces a dopamine and serotonin hit
  • Cursing also has an analgesic (pain-reducing) effect
  • Not meant for on-stage use, but can help before speaking

“there's research that says that when you swear curse it actually helps you reduce anxiety when you curse you release a flood of neurochemicals that…”

Matt Abrahams · 31:00
#anxiety#research#hot-take
Hot Take1:03:00

Two Q&A Habits to Drop

Matt names two pet peeves in Q&A: saying 'good question' to every question, and ending answers with 'does that make sense?' The first is a transparent time-buy; the second can make people suspect you don't make sense. He suggests 'did I answer your question?' instead.

  • 'Good question' to every question over-validates the asker and buys obvious time
  • 'Does that make sense?' can plant the idea that you don't make sense
  • Better closers: 'did I answer your question?', 'do you have a follow-up?'
  • Take the question in without interrupting or over-validating it

“I have two pet peeves about Q&A sessions one is saying good question to every question and two at the end of answering the question…”

Matt Abrahams · 1:03:30
#q-and-a#public-speaking#hot-take

Explainer· 5

Explainer07:30

Visualization as a Desensitization Tool

Matt explains how mentally rehearsing a talk — seeing yourself walk to the stage, deliver, and step off — desensitizes you the way a flight simulator prepares a pilot. It draws on 1980s University of Oregon research and only takes about five minutes to be effective.

  • Visualization gives you a controlled 'dress rehearsal' even when you're not in the room
  • Based on some of the oldest public-speaking-anxiety research, from the University of Oregon in the 80s
  • Combine deep breathing with envisioning the room, the audience, and a well-received delivery
  • Athletes use it routinely; virtual-reality tools can now simulate responsive or distracted audiences
  • It can take as little as five minutes, ideally repeated a couple of times

“so just like a pilot might do a flight simulator having a visualization can actually really help you feel more comfortable and confident it literally…”

Matt Abrahams · 07:00
#public-speaking#anxiety#visualization
Explainer13:30

Relabel Anxiety as Excitement

Matt explains that the body has essentially one arousal response — racing heart, shallow breath, shakiness — whether you're anxious or excited. Citing Allison Wood Brooks' research at Harvard Business School, he says relabeling those symptoms as excitement makes you relax and even makes you appear to communicate better.

  • The body's fight-or-flight arousal is physiologically the same as excitement
  • What differs is the label you put on the sensations
  • Research attributed to Allison Wood Brooks (Harvard Business School)
  • People who relabeled arousal as excitement were perceived as communicating better
  • Tell yourself 'I get to share my point of view' when symptoms appear

“the the human body has pretty much just one arousal response our heart beats faster we breathe more shallow we get a little shaky but…”

Matt Abrahams · 14:00
#anxiety#reframing#psychology
Explainer25:00

Embodied Cognition: The Warm vs. Cold Coffee Study

Matt describes research (he recalls Duke) where the only variable was whether participants held a hot or iced drink. Those holding something warm rated a person as more collaborative and embracing; those holding something cold judged them as more aloof and distant — evidence that what the body feels shapes what the mind thinks.

  • Embodied cognition: body states influence mental judgments
  • Only variable was holding a cold vs. warm drink
  • Warm drink → person rated more collaborative and embracing; cold → more aloof and distant
  • Supports the idea that changing your body state can change how you think and feel

“and if you were holding something cold you saw the person as a colder person is more aloof and more distant and if you were…”

Matt Abrahams · 25:30
#psychology#embodied-cognition#research
Explainer26:00

The 'Rule of Lung': Exhale Twice as Long

Matt explains that the relaxation response lives in the exhale, not the inhale. His 'rule of lung' is to make your exhale roughly twice as long as your inhale — e.g. a three-count in, a six-count out — to lower heart rate, steady your voice, and keep you present.

  • Deep belly breathing calms heart rate, steadies the voice, and reduces shakiness
  • The magic of relaxation happens during the exhale, not the inhale
  • 'Rule of lung': make the exhale twice as long as the inhale (e.g. 3 in, 6 out)
  • The 'double inhale' variation sneaks in a little extra air before a long exhale

“the bottom line is this what's critical to the relaxation response is the exhale”

Matt Abrahams · 26:30

“so I have a rule of thumb I jokingly call it a rule of lung you want your exhale to be twice as long as…”

Matt Abrahams · 27:00
#breathing#anxiety#techniques
Explainer48:00

Shifting vs. Supporting Responses in Conversation

Matt distinguishes 'supporting' responses (asking the other person to say more) from 'shifting' responses (turning the topic to yourself). Good conversation weights toward supporting, but needs some shifting — pure support signals you're unwilling to disclose anything yourself.

  • Supporting response: 'did you get to the beaches?' — invites them to continue
  • Shifting response: 'oh you went to Costa Rica, I went to Hawaii' — turns it to you
  • Aim for more supporting than shifting, but include some shifting
  • All-support with no self-disclosure feels closed off and unbalanced

“and the goal in a good conversation is to have more supporting responses than shifting but to have some shifting responses”

Matt Abrahams · 48:30
#conversation#small-talk#communication

Story· 2

Story19:30

The Airport Reader Who Never Read the Book

Matt tells of a man at San Francisco Airport who said his book on speaking anxiety was 'incredibly helpful' — then admitted he hadn't read it. Just knowing such a book existed made him feel less alone, illustrating how normalizing anxiety reduces the pressure people feel.

  • A stranger found the book helpful without reading it — its existence proved others share the fear
  • Speaking anxiety is innate to being human; those who study it call it the normal condition
  • Reminding yourself that others feel it too reduces your own pressure
  • We rarely see the work behind seemingly effortless speakers

“incredibly helpful but I didn't read it”

Matt Abrahams · 20:00

“just knowing that a book like that existed made me feel better”

Matt Abrahams · 20:30
#anxiety#story#normalizing
Story23:00

The Google Leader Who Opened With a Video

Matt coached a nervous senior Google leader to open every presentation with 'good morning, let's watch this video,' then facilitate a discussion of it. Shifting from presenter to facilitator took the attention off him and made him far more comfortable.

  • Distraction takes the spotlight off you at the most nervous moment
  • The leader opened with a 30-second on-topic video, then facilitated discussion
  • He went from being a presenter to being a facilitator
  • Distraction must stay relevant — a question, story, or video, not a tangent

“so he would start every single presentation saying these words good morning let's watch this video”

Matt Abrahams · 23:30

“so he went from being a presenter to being a facilitator”

Matt Abrahams · 23:30
#public-speaking#anxiety#techniques

Tool· 2

Tool16:00

The 'I Have Value to Add' Mantra

To counter the negative self-talk that fuels speaking anxiety, Matt recommends a short, believable mantra repeated right before you speak. His own is 'I have value to bring'; others he cites include 'last time this went well' and 'it's not about me, it's about my content.'

  • Negative internal chatter ('I'm an impostor', 'I'm not prepared') sets you up to fail
  • Use a modest, credible mantra rather than an over-the-top one
  • Examples: 'I have value to bring', 'you've got this', 'I'm prepared', 'I know my stuff'
  • Write it on a Post-it or set it as a phone reminder that flashes up before you speak

“what I'll say right before I speak is I have value to bring”

Matt Abrahams · 17:00
#anxiety#self-talk#mantra
Tool28:30

Tongue Twisters to Get Present and Warm Up

Matt uses tongue twisters as a personal pre-speaking ritual: they force present-moment focus (you can't say them right otherwise) and warm up the voice. He warns against the common mistake of expecting to go from 'silence to brilliance' without warming up.

  • Tongue twisters force present-moment focus, pulling you out of anxious future-thinking
  • They also warm up the voice, which nervous speakers often neglect
  • You can't go from 'silence to brilliance' without warming up, just as in sport
  • Matt's own twister: 'I slit a sheet, a sheet I slit...' — a slip yields a naughty word

“we have this mistaken notion that we can go from Silence to Brilliance without warming up”

Matt Abrahams · 29:00
#anxiety#warm-up#techniques

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway11:00

Dare to Be Dull: Connection Over Perfection

Matt argues that judging every word against a standard of perfection consumes cognitive bandwidth, like running too many apps at once. Giving yourself permission to 'dare to be dull' — just answer the question, just do the task — frees up resources and paradoxically makes you communicate better.

  • Constant self-evaluation taxes cognitive bandwidth, like a CPU with too many windows open
  • 'Dare to be dull' comes from the world of improvisation
  • Striving for connection over perfection dials down self-evaluation
  • Removing the pressure to be perfect tends to produce a better, more interesting result

“your brain in many ways is like a CPU a computer it's not a Perfect Analogy but it works”

Matt Abrahams · 12:00

“so I often say strive for connection over Perfection by daring to be D just get the task done just answer the question just give…”

Matt Abrahams · 12:30
#anxiety#improvisation#mindset
Takeaway34:30

You Have to Prepare to Be Spontaneous

Matt makes the counterintuitive case that spontaneous speaking — the vast majority of our communication — improves through preparation, just as athletes and jazz musicians prepare in practice so they can respond fluidly in the moment. And anyone can get better at it.

  • Most communication is spontaneous, not the planned pitch or agenda'd meeting
  • Everyone can get better at spontaneous speaking — it's not an innate 'gift of gab'
  • Preparation is what enables good spontaneity, as in athletics or jazz
  • Improvement comes from attacking both mindset/approach and the messaging itself

“you actually have to prepare to be spontaneous and that's counterintuitive but it is through preparation that we get better at it”

Matt Abrahams · 35:00
#spontaneous-speaking#mindset#practice
Takeaway46:00

Small Talk: Be Interested, Not Interesting

Quoting podcast guest Rachel Greenwald — an academic and matchmaker — Matt reframes small talk from a performance into a collaboration. Instead of trying to be impressive, treat it like hacky sack: set the other person up to succeed and keep the exchange going.

  • Best small-talk advice: 'be interested, not interesting' (from Rachel Greenwald)
  • Stop trying to 'spike the ball over the net' every time
  • Think of small talk like hacky sack — set the other person up and get the ball back
  • Small talk is underrated: relationships and friendships often start there

“be interested not interesting many of us go into small talk thinking we have to be super interesting”

Matt Abrahams · 46:30

“small talk is more like playing the game of hacky sack where it's simply just set the other person up to be successful and get…”

Matt Abrahams · 47:00
#small-talk#conversation#connection