Be Interested, Not Interesting
Play small talk like hacky sack: set the other person up to succeed and balance disclosure over time
- Difficulty
- Moderate
- Time to result
- ~weeks to results
- Steps
- 3
- Confidence
- 88%
A model for small talk that removes the pressure to perform. Instead of trying to be impressive, you focus on being interested in the other person, and you manage two subtle dynamics: matching depth of disclosure over time, and using more supporting than shifting responses. This breeds intimacy and keeps conversation flowing.
Origin
The core maxim 'be interested, not interesting' comes from Rachel Greenwald, an academic and matchmaker who was a guest on Abrahams's podcast. The supporting-vs-shifting response distinction and the hacky-sack analogy are Abrahams's framing.
Core principles
- 01Small talk is undervalued; big relationships and self-knowledge often start there
- 02Treat it like hacky sack, not spiking a ball: set the other person up and get the ball back to you
- 03Reciprocity of disclosure matters; mismatched depth feels awkward
- 04Supporting responses invite more; shifting responses redirect to yourself
How to run it
- 1
Enter with the interested mindset
Go in aiming to be interested in the other person rather than interesting to them, which lowers the pressure to perform.
Pro tip Ask questions and get genuinely curious about what they share, like the hacky-sack goal of keeping it going.
- 2
Balance depth of disclosure over time
Keep the level of personal disclosure roughly reciprocal; if they share something deeper, match or approach it over time rather than staying superficial.
Watch out Don't be too disclosive too quickly; jumping to a near-divorce fight at the start of small talk feels inappropriate, though it may be natural later.
- 3
Favor supporting over shifting responses
Use mostly supporting responses that ask them to say more (e.g. 'did you get to the beaches?'), with some shifting responses (e.g. 'I went to Hawaii') so you also seem willing to share.
Pro tip If you only ever support and never share, it looks like you don't want to be disclosive; mix in some shifting to stay balanced.
Watch out All-shifting responses make it about you; all-supporting makes you seem closed off. Aim for more supporting than shifting, but not exclusively.
In the wild
When someone says they got back from Costa Rica, a supporting response is 'did you spend time in San Jose? Did you get to any of the beaches?' A shifting response is 'oh you went to Costa Rica, I went to Hawaii.' Good conversation leans on supporting responses but includes some shifting so you seem willing to share too.
→ A balanced, flowing conversation that builds intimacy without feeling one-sided.
Common mistakes
Asking endless questions while sharing nothing
Only interviewing the other person and deflecting when they ask about you gets strange; people actually want to hear about you too, and equal disclosure is what makes the exchange feel natural.
Is it for you?
Best for
People who dread networking and small talk and default to either over-performing or hiding behind questions
Not ideal for
Contexts calling for immediate deep or vulnerable disclosure, where the slow reciprocity model would feel too guarded
From the transcript
“her advice was this be interested not interesting many of us go into small talk thinking we have to be super interesting we have to…”
“the goal in a good conversation is to have more supporting responses than shifting but to have some shifting responses because if all I do…”
From the episode
How to speak more confidently and persuasively
Matt Abrahams (professor, podcast host, author, speaker)