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Matthew Dicks (Storyworthy)15 December 2023

How to tell better stories

10Frameworks
15Insights

Episode overview

Matthew Dicks explains that memorable stories center on a brief moment of transformation or realization, with the beginning and ending placed in meaningful opposition. He gives tactical methods for holding attention—stakes, surprise, suspense, humor, and devices such as elephants, backpacks, breadcrumbs, hourglasses, and crystal balls—and shows how personal vulnerability makes business communication more memorable. He also recommends the daily “Homework for Life” practice for capturing meaningful moments, advises speakers to rehearse transitions instead of memorizing scripts, and argues for saying yes to frightening opportunities while retaining the option to step back.

Key ideas

  • Every effective story centers on a short moment when the storyteller changes or realizes something new.
  • Start from the ending's moment of meaning, then choose an opposing beginning and remove context that does not serve that movement.
  • Stories should pass the dinner test: sound natural, remain personal to the teller, and reveal genuine vulnerability.
  • Maintain attention through stakes, surprise, suspense, and humor; distribute new stakes across the story instead of front-loading them.
  • In business, connect stories by adjacent theme, meaning, or message rather than forcing a literal content-to-content analogy.
  • Build a reusable bank of stories through Homework for Life: record at least one meaningful moment from every day in a spreadsheet.
  • For public speaking, record and repeatedly listen to the talk, focus rehearsal on transitions, and avoid word-for-word memorization.
  • Begin stories with location and action so listeners can immediately visualize a scene and recognize that a story is underway.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Peak Performance3 steps

Beating Pre-Talk Nerves

Almost all speaking anxiety is before you start — reframe it, then rehearse by passive listening and transition drills.

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Self-Mastery4 steps

Homework for Life

Capture one story-worthy moment every day to build an endless bank of stories and slow down time.

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Communication3 steps

Location and Action Openers

Start every story with where you are and what's happening — it activates imagination and silences the room.

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Communication4 steps

Speaking with Adjacency

To explain something dull, tell a story about something else, then snap it into place.

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Communication3 steps

The Five-Second Moment

Build every story around one instant of transformation or realization, and start at the end.

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Communication5 steps

The Five Stakes Tools

Five devices — elephant, backpack, breadcrumb, hourglass, crystal ball — that make an audience wonder what happens next.

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Communication4 steps

The Four Engines of Attention

Stakes, surprise, suspense, and humor are the only four things keeping a business audience listening.

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Influence4 steps

The Personal Interest Inventory

Catalog the facts about yourself by reach and intensity, then weave them strategically into how you speak.

Read →
Mindset3 steps

The Power of Yes

Say yes to what scares you — a yes can always become a no, but a no forecloses the door forever.

Read →
Communication3 steps

The Three-Point Story Test

A real story must contain change, pass the dinner test, and be about you.

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 14

  • Matthew DicksMentionshe helps people create their eulogy ahead of time before somebody passes away

    Today my guest is Matthew Dicks.

  • Lenny RachitskyRecommendstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter

    Matthew is the author of my all-time favorite book on storytelling, Storyworthy

  • Matthew DicksMentionshe helps people create their eulogy ahead of time before somebody passes away

    In his day job, he is an elementary school teacher

  • EileenMentionsa student in Matthew Dicks's elementary-school class

    And I have a student in my class, her name is Eileen.

  • Kurt VonnegutCoinedmentioned

    Yes, Kurt Vonnegut said that. Kurt Vonnegut said start as close to the end as possible.

  • David MametCoinedmentioned

    I was just listening to an interview with I think his name is David Mamet

  • David SedarisRecommendsmentioned

    Jesse Klein and David Sedaris. Go read those two people, too.

  • Boris LevinMentionsa factory owner in Connecticut who applies personal stories in his business

    One of them is named Boris. His name is Boris Levin. He is a factory owner here in Connecticut.

  • Masha RatnerMentionsformer director of corporate communications at Slack

    the other star of my book is a woman named Masha Ratner. She used to be the director of corporate communications at Slack.

  • Steve JobsMentionsSteve Jobs is just uh the bar he held for the company and for technical talent and for excellence was not uh wavering.

    Steve Jobs was a master of it.

  • Nathaniel PhilbrickCoinedmentioned

    Nathaniel Philbrick's Heart of the Sea, which is a non-fiction account of the whaleship Essex

  • Jesse KleinRecommendsmentioned

    And then anything by Jesse Klein. Just go She has two books.

  • Herman MelvilleCoinedmentioned

    The sinking of the Essex is what gave Melville the idea for Moby Dick.

  • Maria BamfordRecommendsmentioned

    Maria Banford's memoir right now I'm reading. Also extraordinary

Resources · 38

  • AmazonMentionscompany · Jeff Bezos

    companies like Slack, Amazon, Lego, and Salesforce

  • The Moth StorySLAMMentionsevent · The Moth

    Matthew is a 59-time Moth Story Slam winner and nine-time Grand Slam Champ.

  • Speak UpCoinedcompany · Matthew Dicks

    through his company Speak Up.

  • SlackMentionssoftware · Slack Technologies

    companies like Slack, Amazon, Lego, and Salesforce

  • SalesforceMentionscompany · Salesforce

    companies like Slack, Amazon, Lego, and Salesforce

  • LEGOMentionscompany · The LEGO Group

    companies like Slack, Amazon, Lego, and Salesforce

  • StoryworthyRecommendsbook · Matthew Dicks

    If you're interested in this topic, definitely pick up his book Storyworthy. It'll change your life.

  • OneSchemaMentionssoftware · Christina Gilbert

    Today's episode is brought to you by OneSchema, the embeddable CSV importer for SaaS.

  • The Tim Ferriss ShowMentionspodcast · Tim Ferriss

    after hearing their ad on the Tim Ferriss podcast

  • Maui Nui VenisonUsescompany

    My wife and I make stew and steaks and all kinds of grilled goodies with the meat.

  • Maui Nui VenisonRecommendscompany

    I highly recommend trying their all-natural venison jerky sticks for an optimal protein snack

  • StoryworthyCoinedbook · Matthew Dicks

    I tried to make my book as sort of actionable as possible.

  • Star WarsMentionsfilm · George Lucas

    if you think about a movie like Star Wars, the first Star Wars that came out

  • When Harry Met Sally...Mentionsfilm · Rob Reiner

    When Harry Met Sally, that movie, when it begins, Harry and Sally actually say they hate each other

  • Ocean's ElevenMentionsfilm · Steven Soderbergh

    Like if you watch an Ocean's 11 movie, right? You know what the plan is before they go into the casino.

  • Pulp FictionMentionsfilm · Quentin Tarantino

    I think of Pulp Fiction and Tarantino in this often

  • Charity ThiefRecommendsother · Matthew Dicks

    the one that I reference in my book, which you can go watch online, is Charity Thief.

  • SlackMentionssoftware · Slack Technologies

    She used to be the director of corporate communications at Slack.

  • Microsoft TeamsMentionssoftware · Microsoft

    She had to create the narrative that was going to compete against Microsoft Teams.

  • VantaMentionssoftware · Christina Cacioppo

    This episode is brought to you by Vanta, helping you streamline your security compliance to accelerate your growth.

  • Stranger ThingsMentionstv show · The Duffer Brothers

    Stranger Things was the biggest television show on television at the time

  • 1989Mentionsother · Taylor Swift

    Taylor Swift put out an album called 1989.

  • Sesame StreetMentionstv show · Joan Ganz Cooney and Lloyd Morrisett

    a simple one is a game they used to play on Sesame Street, which is one of these things is not like the other.

  • Homework for LifeCoinedother · Matthew Dicks

    It's a process I came up with, you know, maybe 15 years ago now.

  • ExcelUsessoftware · Microsoft

    What I do is I took an Excel spreadsheet, two columns

  • Matthew Dicks's Homework for Life TED TalkRecommendsother · Matthew Dicks

    And I have a TED Talk about it that I go on for 17 minutes about. So, I suggest watching it

  • Google SheetsMentionssoftware · Google

    open up Google Sheets on their phone and just add something?

  • Happy-Go-LuckyRecommendsbook · David Sedaris

    Sedaris's Happy-Go-Lucky which is a great book.

  • In the Heart of the SeaRecommendsbook · Nathaniel Philbrick

    Nathaniel Philbrick's Heart of the Sea, which is a non-fiction account of the whaleship Essex

  • Moby-DickMentionsbook · Herman Melville

    The sinking of the Essex is what gave Melville the idea for Moby Dick.

  • The Last of UsRecommendstv show · Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann

    for TV shows I enjoyed The Last of Us, which is based on a video game I've never played in my life.

  • BarbieRecommendsfilm · Greta Gerwig

    the Barbie movie is better than I ever expected it to be

  • Krinner Tree GenieRecommendsproduct · Krinner

    The Krinner Tree Genie is extraordinary. It's exactly what I would have designed

  • Power PodRecommendsproduct

    The power pod's the one you want.

  • Nostalgia Hot Dog ToasterRecommendsproduct · Nostalgia

    I fully support the Nostalgia Hot Dog Toaster.

  • MatthewDicks.comRecommendswebsite · Matthew Dicks

    you can find me at matthewdicks.com

  • StoryworthyMD.comRecommendswebsite · Matthew Dicks

    I also have storyworthymd.com. My initials MD. And that's where I sort of have courses and online training

  • Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky

    You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster1:19:30

98% of Your Stage Fright Happens Before You Speak

Dicks reframes public-speaking nerves: almost all of the fear is pre-talk, and once you start speaking it largely falls away. Realizing this is a relief, especially if you're prepared and know your material. He adds the reassurance that everyone is nervous — even a very famous person he performed with who begged him to stop talking backstage — so if you're nervous, you're in the same boat as everyone else.

  • 98% of nervousness is before you begin speaking, not during
  • Nerves largely fall away once the talk starts, especially if you're prepared
  • Believing this is itself a relief that reduces the fear
  • Everyone is nervous, including famous performers — you're not alone

98% of your nervousness is actually before you begin speaking.

Matthew Dicks · 1:20:00

everyone's nervous except for me. I'm the only monster in the world.

Matthew Dicks · 1:21:30
#public speaking#confidence#psychology

Hot Take· 4

Hot Take13:30

You've Never Asked to See a PowerPoint Twice

Dicks makes the case that human minds are built for story and not for slides, facts, or statistics. Nobody rewatches a keynote or dreams about a deck, but people watch the same movie a hundred times and children demand the same book fifty times. Story is the format the brain wants to revisit.

  • No one asks to see a PowerPoint a second time or dreams about a keynote
  • People happily rewatch movies like When Harry Met Sally even knowing the ending
  • Kids wanting the same book 50 times shows we're wired for repetition of story
  • Our minds don't remember pie charts, facts, or platitudes not attached to imagery

You've never asked to see a PowerPoint presentation a second time.

Matthew Dicks · 13:30

We're wired for story. That's why it's so important.

Matthew Dicks · 14:00
#storytelling#communication#business
Hot Take20:00

Nobody Cares About Your Vacation

Dicks's blunt advice on vacation stories: don't tell them. A recounting of your trip is just reliving it at the listener's expense. If a genuine moment of change happened, tell only that moment — the fact that it took place in Aruba is usually irrelevant and should probably never even come up.

  • Most vacation stories are just a recounting at the expense of the listener
  • Only tell a vacation story if a genuine five-second moment of change happened
  • If it did, tell only the moment — the location is almost always irrelevant
  • Insisting people know you were in Aruba just wastes their time to relive your fun

Do not tell vacation stories.

Matthew Dicks · 20:30

nobody cares about your vacation.

Matthew Dicks · 20:30
#storytelling#social#advice
Hot Take49:30

People Don't Want to Be Funny — They Want to Have Been Funny

Dicks observes that nearly every business person he works with wants humor, but what they actually want is to have already been funny, without the risk. Being funny means saying something you believe is funny and hoping the audience agrees; if it fails, it hurts. He tells of an executive who cut all his jokes at the Javits Center because the prior speakers were dull — when landing them would have made him rise 'like a phoenix.'

  • Everyone wants to be funny, but really they want to have been funny without the risk
  • Being funny requires expecting an audience to share your judgment, which can hurt if it fails
  • An executive pulled all his jokes because earlier speakers weren't funny
  • Following dull speakers with jokes is the best position — you rise like a phoenix

They want to have been funny.

Matthew Dicks · 50:00

humor is a brilliant and beautiful and simple way to differentiate yourself

Matthew Dicks · 51:30
#humor#public speaking#business
Hot Take1:25:30

Say Yes Because a Yes Can Always Become a No

Dicks pushes back on the fashionable advice to say no and protect your time. Saying no presumes you already know what's behind a door you've never opened — arrogant and limiting. A yes can always become a no after you step through and decide it's not for you. He credits saying yes to a terrifying stand-up invitation for a whole new pursuit, while the friend who challenged him has still never done it out of fear.

  • Saying no presumes you already know what's on the other side of a door you've never opened
  • A yes can always become a no — step through, try it, and leave if it's not for you
  • Learning to say no to protect your time leaves you at 100 regretting the doors you skipped
  • He runs toward what scares him because those things are often best for him

the things that frighten me are often the things that are the best for me.

Matthew Dicks · 1:29:00

the cave you fear contains the treasure you seek.

Lenny · 1:29:30
#mindset#risk#career

Explainer· 3

Explainer05:00

Every Story Is Really One Five-Second Moment

Matthew Dicks argues that every good story hinges on a single moment of transformation or realization — a second where a person went from thinking one thing to thinking another. The rest of the story exists only to bring that moment to maximum clarity so the audience can experience the flip alongside the teller. He illustrates it with a moment from his classroom and with Luke Skywalker's shift from technology to the Force in Star Wars.

  • A story is about one moment of transformation ('I became a new person') or realization ('I used to think X, now I think Y')
  • That moment feels like it took a long time but really happened in a single second
  • 98% of the story is context that exists to bring the one moment into clarity
  • The point of a story is to let the audience experience that flip with the storyteller

every story is about a singular moment. I call it five seconds. It can be one second, honestly.

Matthew Dicks · 05:30

98% of the story is the context to bring that singular moment into fruition.

Matthew Dicks · 06:30
#storytelling#narrative#public speaking
Explainer14:30

Why Change Is What Makes an Audience Connect

Dicks explains why the moment of change is the engine of connection. Reporting the literal content of your day rarely connects — his kindergarten-teacher wife and his fifth-grade-teacher self can't even relate to each other's days. But a story focused on change (someone finding confidence) has universal appeal, because the audience has felt that same emotional arc even if they've never lived your specific circumstances.

  • Reporting the events of your day only connects with people who did the same thing
  • Change has universal appeal — most people have experienced gaining confidence, etc.
  • Focusing on the change exponentially increases the story's ability to connect
  • The emotional arc connects even when the literal content has nothing to do with the listener

reporting on the moments that you have experienced in the day is not a way to connect to people.

Matthew Dicks · 15:00

When we do change, when we're focused in on that change, we increase exponentially the universal appeal to the story

Matthew Dicks · 15:30
#storytelling#connection#psychology
Explainer28:30

The Best Surprise Is Inevitable Yet Unseen

Dicks describes the hardest and most rewarding storytelling move: a surprise the audience never saw coming that, once it lands, feels inevitable. You accomplish it by hiding the information the audience needs (A, B, C, D) so they can't connect the dots until you want them to. Every story contains at least one surprise, because realizing something for the first time is itself a surprise.

  • The ideal ending is both inevitable and a complete surprise (echoing David Mamet)
  • Plant enough information earlier that the surprise feels earned when it lands
  • Hide that information so the audience can't connect the dots prematurely
  • Every story has at least one surprise — the moment of realizing something new

every story has a surprise, at least one

Matthew Dicks · 28:30

You build information into the audience's mind that will allow the surprise to land in an inevitable and yet surprising way.

Matthew Dicks · 29:30
#storytelling#craft#narrative

Story· 4

Story34:30

The Lunchbox Speaker Nobody Forgot

Dicks contrasts two conference speakers to show the cost of being forgettable. One walked out with his childhood lunchbox and told a vulnerable story about his parents having nothing yet keeping him in new shoes — unforgettable. The other was fluent, confident, and amusing, yet fifteen minutes later neither Dicks nor his teacher wife could recall a single thing he said, because minds don't retain facts not attached to imagery.

  • Most business communication is 'round, white, and flavorless' — intentionally, out of fear
  • The lunchbox speaker's vulnerable story was remembered; the polished executive was forgotten within 15 minutes
  • Even a teacher invested in communication couldn't recall a single point from the fluent speaker
  • Not telling stories guarantees you'll be forgotten

most communication in business is round, white, and flavorless

Matthew Dicks · 34:30

I'm never going to forget that guy with the lunchbox.

Matthew Dicks · 36:00
#storytelling#business#public speaking
Story37:30

Boris, the Strikeout Story, and Bricks vs Band-Aids

Factory owner Boris Levin crafted a story about watching his son strike out in a Little League championship — then seeing the boy laugh and move on with his friends minutes later. Boris deploys it to his sales team when they sulk for days after losing a big account. Dicks uses it to draw his central distinction: 'bricks' storytellers build a vault of stories to deploy, while 'band-aid' people just need a story to patch one problem and will keep needing help.

  • Boris built a moving story about his son's strikeout and quick recovery
  • He deploys it to a sales team that sulks for days after losing a deal
  • The story works because it reveals Boris as a caring father, not a scolding boss
  • 'Bricks' = building a reusable vault of stories; 'band-aids' = one-off fixes that keep you dependent

I say Band-Aids versus bricks.

Matthew Dicks · 41:00

Boris is building bricks. He is building a vault of stories that he can then deploy into his business

Matthew Dicks · 41:30
#storytelling#business#leadership
Story42:00

How a 30-Second Personal Anecdote Beat Microsoft Teams

Masha Ratner, then Slack's director of corporate communications, built the narrative to compete against Microsoft Teams — an idea that came to her alone on a Tuesday night after a breakup, two glasses of wine, three words on a napkin. She initially refused to include that personal backstory ('we do not insert ourselves into our narratives'). When she finally added a 30-second version, people wanted to talk to her afterward, connecting over their own pandemic loneliness.

  • Slack needed a story to counter Microsoft Teams being copied, free, and everywhere
  • Masha resisted inserting her personal Tuesday-night backstory, per corporate norms
  • Adding a 30-second personal anecdote transformed audience response
  • People connected because she became a human being, not a corporate monolith

We do not insert ourselves into our narratives.

Matthew Dicks · 43:00

I can't believe the difference that that 30-second anecdote meant to the narrative because suddenly, when I reached the end of the narrative, people wanted…

Matthew Dicks · 43:30
#storytelling#business#marketing
Story58:30

The Scientist Who Sold Tubes by Talking About Apples

At a conference, five scientists from a lab-tube company were coached to tell stories. One presented no data at all — just a story about the chaos of buying different apples for each family member, then snapped it to 'that's what my company does: you deserve to get the exact tube you want.' He generated more leads than the other four scientists combined, and left everyone associating grocery-store apples with his company.

  • One scientist told only a story — buying different apples for each family member — and no data
  • He 'snapped' the apple theme onto the company's properly-sized tubes
  • He got more leads than the other four scientists combined
  • The story built lasting positive association: buyers now think of the company when picking apples

One guy, though, doesn't present any data whatsoever. He just tells a story.

Matthew Dicks · 59:30

He got more leads at the conference than the other scientists combined

Matthew Dicks · 1:00:30
#storytelling#sales#business

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway10:30

Start at the End: Beginning and End in Opposition

Because you already lived the moment that matters, you should build a true story backwards from its ending. The beginning and end operate in opposition to each other — Eileen lacks confidence versus Eileen has confidence — and knowing the end guarantees you have something of import to say rather than just reporting events chronologically.

  • For true stories, start at the end because you've lived the moment and the end informs everything
  • A story is two moments in time — a beginning and an end — operating in opposition
  • Knowing the ending tells you how the story should start
  • Most people just 'report on their lives' chronologically, which leads nowhere

we start as storytellers at the end.

Matthew Dicks · 10:30

every story should be essentially a beginning and an end in opposition to each other

Matthew Dicks · 12:30
#storytelling#structure#narrative
Takeaway47:00

'I'm Doing Great' Is the Worst Possible Answer

Dicks argues that everyday questions are chances to make yourself memorable, and 'I'm doing great' wastes them. When asked how he's doing, he slips in that he's an elementary school teacher — 'my fifth-graders didn't try to kill me' — delivering amusing, self-deprecating content while answering. Every question is an opening to include something interesting about yourself without sounding self-absorbed.

  • 'I'm doing great' is the stupidest answer to 'how are you' — it reveals nothing
  • Answer questions in a way that slips in something interesting about you
  • Being an elementary school teacher earns instant goodwill, so he works it in
  • The trick is including a personal item while still answering the question

That's the stupidest answer you can offer

Matthew Dicks · 47:30

whenever I'm asked a question, I am trying to include an item of my personality, my life, something that might be of interest to people…

Matthew Dicks · 48:00
#communication#relatability#advice
Takeaway1:38:00

Start Every Story With Location and Action

Dicks's single most tactical tip: begin every story with location and action. Naming a location ('I'm standing in the kitchen') is one word that arrives imbued with a thousand adjectives the listener supplies. Starting with action signals the story is moving forward. He notes this opening also visibly signals 'a story is starting,' which he's been told helps people from marginalized groups claim the space to be heard.

  • Begin with location — one word that activates the listener's imagination with a thousand adjectives
  • Begin with action — something is already happening, like the spaceship opening of Star Wars
  • The 'I'm in a place doing a thing' opening signals to a room that a story is starting
  • That signal helps quiet a room and grant the teller space to speak

Location activates imagination.

Matthew Dicks · 1:38:00

start every story you ever tell for the rest of your life with those two things and you're already going to be like 50% better…

Matthew Dicks · 1:40:30
#storytelling#craft#advice