LLenny's Podcast
← All episodes
Joe Hudson (executive coach, Art of Accomplishment)08 August 2024

How embracing emotions will accelerate your career

9Frameworks
16Insights

Episode overview

Executive coach Joe Hudson explains how a repetitive critical inner voice and resistance to emotion can constrain achievement, decision-making, relationships, and enjoyment. He proposes treating personal development as experimentation: change how you respond to inner criticism, welcome and express emotions, question assumptions, and distinguish genuine wants from burdensome “shoulds.” The discussion also applies enjoyment and explicit principles to productivity, meetings, teams, and decisions, concluding with a seven-minute daily gratitude practice performed with another person.

Key ideas

  • A repetitive critical inner voice is unreliable; run daily experiments with new, compassionate ways of relating to it instead of trying to suppress it.
  • Emotions are integral to decision-making, and welcoming the feelings one usually avoids expands the available choices and actions.
  • Efforts to avoid an emotion often recreate the circumstances that produce it; problems can be reverse-engineered by identifying the resisted feeling.
  • Enjoying an activity more can improve energy efficiency, quality, persistence, and productivity without requiring external circumstances to change.
  • Self-discovery framed around authentic wants and experimentation supports natural evolution better than shame-driven self-improvement and “shoulds.”
  • A short list of tested personal principles can simplify decisions; Hudson advises keeping five and experimenting with each before adopting it.
  • Meetings and decisions are the atomic structure of a company, and consistently enjoyable five-star meetings expose underlying organizational problems.
  • Seven minutes of felt gratitude exchanged with another person each day can shift attention from perceived lack toward what is already present.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Leadership5 steps

Avoidance Reversal

Whatever emotion you avoid, you invite — in exactly the way you avoid it. Backward-engineer any problem.

Read →
Self-Mastery5 steps

Daily Experiments With the Inner Critic

Stop fighting the critical voice in your head. Run a new response experiment on it every day.

Read →
Self-Mastery5 steps

Emotional Fluidity (Emotional Inquiry)

Unkink the hose: welcome, feel and physically express emotions instead of managing them.

Read →
Strategy5 steps

Five Principles to Live By

Build, test and refine five simple principles — then decisions get made automatically.

Read →
Leadership5 steps

Five-Star Meetings

Make every meeting one people love leaving. The ones that stay bad are a map of your company's real problems.

Read →
Mindset5 steps

Question the Assumption

Every problem rests on hidden assumptions. Surface them and the problem often dissolves.

Read →
Peak Performance5 steps

The 10% More Enjoyment Test

Enjoyment is a measure of efficiency. Enjoy the work 10% more and you are 10% more efficient.

Read →
Mindset5 steps

The 7-Minute Felt Gratitude Practice

Seven minutes of felt (not listed) gratitude with another person daily — then aim it at where you feel lack.

Read →
Mindset5 steps

Want Over Should (Self-Discovery, Not Self-Improvement)

Replace shoulds with wants and experiments — self-improvement encodes 'I'm broken' and slows evolution.

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 7

  • Joe HudsonMentionsLenny introduces Joe as a sought-after executive coach to technology leaders whose work blends spiritual, psychological, and neurological practices.

    “Today, my guest is Joe Hudson. Joe is one of the most sought-after executive coaches amongst tech leaders”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • Martin Luther King Jr.Mentionsif Dr King had slides that day of the I Have a Dream speech

    “And then if it's unkinked, then it's like Gandhi or Martin Luther King.”

    ▶ Watch at ~19:00approx.
  • Mahatma GandhiMentionsmentioned

    “And then if it's unkinked, then it's like Gandhi or Martin Luther King.”

    ▶ Watch at ~19:00approx.
  • Jeff BezosMentionsthe Jeff Bezos thing that like the success of today was set in motion three years ago

    “Jeff Bezos made up Amazon. We make stuff up.”

    ▶ Watch at ~38:00approx.
  • Richard BransonMentionsmentioned

    “the Virgin guy Branson. Branson said it. He's like, culture eats strategy for breakfast or some such.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:09:00approx.
  • Brett KislakMentionsmentioned

    “it's Art of Accomplishment with Brett Kislak and Joe Hudson, I think.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:15:30approx.
  • Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter

    “Appreciate it, Lenny.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.

Resources · 24

  • AppleMentionscompany · Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, and Ronald Wayne

    “has worked with folks from OpenAI, SpaceX, Apple, and other world-class companies.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • OpenAIMentionscompany

    “has worked with folks from OpenAI, SpaceX, Apple, and other world-class companies.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • SpaceXMentionscompany · Elon Musk

    “has worked with folks from OpenAI, SpaceX, Apple, and other world-class companies.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • BuildBetterRecommendssoftware · BuildBetter

    “Get a personalized demo and use code Lenny for a $100 credit if you sign up now at buildbetter.ai/lenny.”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • WarrantMentionssoftware · Warrant

    “WorkOS also recently acquired Warrant, the fine-grained authorization service.”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
  • GoogleCoinedcompany · Google

    “Zanzibar, which was originally designed for Google to power Google Docs and YouTube.”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
  • Google DocsMentionssoftware · Google

    “which was originally designed for Google to power Google Docs and YouTube.”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
  • YouTubeMentionswebsite · Google

    “which was originally designed for Google to power Google Docs and YouTube.”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
  • ZanzibarCoinedsoftware · Google

    “Warrant's product is based on a groundbreaking authorization system called Zanzibar, which was originally designed for Google”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
  • WorkOSRecommendscompany · WorkOS, Inc.

    “you should consider WorkOS. It's a drop-in replacement for Auth0 and supports up to 1 million monthly active users for free.”

    ▶ Watch at ~6:00approx.
  • Auth0Mentionssoftware · Okta

    “It's a drop-in replacement for Auth0 and supports up to 1 million monthly active users for free.”

    ▶ Watch at ~6:00approx.
  • Descartes' ErrorMentionsbook · Antonio Damasio

    “there's a person who wrote a book called Descartes' Error.”

    ▶ Watch at ~13:30approx.
  • Emotional InquiryRecommendscourse · Art of Accomplishment

    “We have a a free audio on our website called emotional inquiry and that would be the easiest way”

    ▶ Watch at ~22:30approx.
  • Inside Out 2Mentionsfilm · Pixar Animation Studios

    “Inside Out too, I think is exactly a representation of what you're talking about where joy is actually she's like the protagonist almost.”

    ▶ Watch at ~24:00approx.
  • Question the AssumptionRecommendscourse · Art of Accomplishment

    “one of them is question the assumption and that's a really great way to have people start to see through their stories.”

    ▶ Watch at ~27:00approx.
  • Bodega BayMentionsplace

    “I was I was in Bodega Bay out of all places”

    ▶ Watch at ~28:30approx.
  • CodaUsessoftware · Coda

    “I use Coda every day to coordinate my podcasting and newsletter workflows.”

    ▶ Watch at ~36:30approx.
  • CodaRecommendssoftware · Coda

    “Head over to coda.io/lenny and sign up to get six free months of the team plan.”

    ▶ Watch at ~37:30approx.
  • AmazonCoinedcompany · Jeff Bezos

    “Jeff Bezos made up Amazon. We make stuff up.”

    ▶ Watch at ~38:00approx.
  • FacebookMentionscompany · Meta

    “what do I have to do to get likes on Facebook?”

    ▶ Watch at ~58:00approx.
  • Decisions CourseRecommendscourse · Art of Accomplishment

    “We have a decisions course which is all like a large part of it is about how to do that.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00:30approx.
  • HarvardMentionsother

    “Harvard's got a couple of these, but we used to do these tiny pulses.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:08:30approx.
  • Connection CourseRecommendscourse · Art of Accomplishment

    “the foundational course for that is called the Connection Course. So if you want to get into it, go to the Connection Course”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:16:30approx.
  • Lenny's Podcast websiteRecommendswebsite · Lenny Rachitsky

    “You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:18:30approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster06:30

Why the Critical Voice in Your Head Is Always Wrong

Hudson argues the repeating, critical voice in your head is never accurate, even when there's truth buried in what it says. He illustrates it with a boss analogy: if a person stood next to you criticizing you every few minutes, you'd never say you needed them to be productive. The voice only nags ('you should work out') and never actually helps you solve the problem.

  • The specific target is the critical voice that repeats the same thing over and over
  • There may be truth in what it says, but it is still incorrect and never accurate
  • A real helper would ask how to make working out enjoyable, not just repeat 'you should'

“every single time the voice in your head is is wrong.”

Joe Hudson · 07:00

“if I was your boss and I was sitting right next to you and I was criticizing you every couple minutes, there's no way that…”

Joe Hudson · 07:30
#inner-critic#self-talk#mindset

Hot Take· 4

Hot Take10:00

Your Inner Critic Isn't the Boss, It's a Kid Having a Tantrum

Hudson reframes the critical voice: it has assumed the position of the boss, but it's really a scared five-year-old having a temper tantrum, often echoing how a parent or teacher once chastised you. His favorite response is to reassure it: 'I see that you're really scared. Don't worry, I'm right here with you.'

  • The voice sounds authoritative but behaves like a five-year-old mid-tantrum
  • It often mimics the way a parent or teacher used to chastise you
  • It is not logical or thoughtful, it is usually abusive and driven by fear
  • A useful response is compassion rather than 'shut up', which usually doesn't work

“But it's really like a little kid having a temper tantrum.”

Joe Hudson · 10:30
#inner-critic#self-compassion#emotions
Hot Take20:30

Joy Is the Matriarch and Won't Enter a House Where Her Children Aren't Welcome

One of Hudson's most-quoted lines: joy is the matriarch of a family of emotions and won't come into a house where her children aren't welcome. A joyful life is one where all the other emotions are deeply welcomed, not merely tolerated or observed with non-judgmental awareness. Welcoming an emotion like a beloved guest produces a different response than clinical detachment.

  • A joyful life requires deeply welcoming all the other emotions, not just accepting them
  • Welcoming 'oh cool, I'm sad' feels different from 'I am non-judgmentally aware of this emotion'
  • Emotions respond to invitation like children entering a home

“joy is the matriarch of a family of emotions and she won't come into a house where her children aren't welcome.”

Joe Hudson · 20:30
#joy#emotions#welcoming
Hot Take30:30

Whatever Emotion You Try to Avoid, You Invite Into Your Life

Hudson's counterintuitive claim: the way you try to avoid a feeling is exactly the way that feeling gets invited toward you. A conflict-avoidant CEO ends up with a tense, out-of-control organization. You can reverse-engineer any recurring problem back to a feeling you're unwilling to have, and solve it by becoming okay with that feeling.

  • A conflict-avoidant CEO who fears feeling out of control ends up with a tense org they can't control
  • Hudson feared abandonment, so he got hard or caretook people, which made them abandon him faster
  • Any recurring problem can be backward-engineered to the feeling you're resisting
  • Example: not wanting to feel ashamed leads to defending yourself, which starts the fight and creates more shame

“whatever emotion that you're trying to avoid, you are inviting into your life in exactly the way that you're trying to avoid it.”

Joe Hudson · 32:00
#emotions#avoidance#self-awareness#conflict
Hot Take46:30

Stop Trying to Improve Yourself, You're Evolving Like an Oak Tree

Hudson challenges the self-improvement frame with the oak tree: there's no point in its life, acorn, sprout, or 200 years old, at which it's 'perfect'. Human beings naturally evolve, and the belief 'there's something wrong with me, I need to improve' introduces shame and stagnation that slow the process. He reframes wants (not shoulds) as the signal of where your natural evolution wants to go.

  • An oak tree is never 'perfect' at any stage, and neither are you
  • 'I need to improve' implies you're broken and slows natural evolution with shame and stagnation
  • Children develop fast partly because they don't think they'll be better people for it
  • A 'want' marks your evolutionary path; a 'should' implies you're lovable only after doing X, Y, Z
  • Hudson reframes it as self-awareness and self-discovery rather than self-improvement

“if you move from authenticity, naturally certain things aren't going to work.”

Joe Hudson · 48:30
#authenticity#self-improvement#growth#shame

Explainer· 3

Explainer13:30

Descartes' Error: We Make Decisions With Emotion, Not Logic

Referencing the book Descartes' Error, Hudson explains that people with damage to the emotional center of the brain kept their IQ but lost the ability to make even simple decisions. The takeaway: we make decisions in the emotional center and use logic only to predict how we'll feel. Falling in love with all your emotions opens up solution sets you didn't have before.

  • Patients with emotional-center brain damage kept high IQ but took hours to make trivial decisions
  • There is neurologically no such thing as a purely logical decision
  • Many decisions are made to feel like a success, or to avoid feeling like a failure or trapped
  • If you can't feel like a failure you avoid risks; if you can't feel unliked you won't speak your truth

“we make decisions in the emotional center of our brain. We use logic to try to figure out how we're going to feel.”

Joe Hudson · 14:00

“There's no such thing as a logical decision.”

Joe Hudson · 14:30
#decision-making#neuroscience#emotions
Explainer18:30

Emotions Are a Kinked Hose: Unkink It and Anger Becomes Clarity

Hudson uses a hose metaphor for emotions: water moving through a tube. Kink it one way and anger comes out as attack; kink it another and it becomes a passive-aggressive jab or guilt. Unkinked, that same anger emerges as a loving, clear boundary, like Gandhi or Martin Luther King. The goal is fluidity, so emotions move through you without losing control.

  • Anger kinked one way becomes an attack, another way becomes a snide comment, another way becomes guilt
  • Unkinked, anger becomes a loving boundary and clarity of purpose
  • Losing control actually signals there is still resistance in the emotion
  • Fluid emotions move right through you; full expression (sound, movement) helps, as all mammals shake to release fear

“emotions are like a tube, let's say, and there's water moving through the tube.”

Joe Hudson · 18:30
#emotions#anger#emotional-fluidity
Explainer1:04:30

Five-Star Meetings Surface Every Problem in Your Company

Hudson says the atomic structure of a company is its meetings and decisions. He works with leaders to make every meeting a five-star experience people love walking out of. The meetings that stay bad point directly to where the real problems are. A content creator who dreaded his YouTube meetings committed to making them enjoyable, and his YouTube numbers went off the charts.

  • The atomic structure of a company is its meetings and decisions
  • Making every meeting five stars surfaces every problem in the company
  • A content creator's dreaded YouTube meetings signaled the real problem; fixing them sent his numbers soaring
  • Leaders typically end up with half as many meetings that are more effective, usually within two months

“If you do that, every single problem with your company will come to the surface. Every single one of them.”

Joe Hudson · 1:05:30
#meetings#leadership#teams#culture

Story· 2

Story28:30

How Falling in Love With Being 'An Asshole' Made Joe Less of One

In Bodega Bay, a friend told Hudson he was an asshole and, instead of arguing, invited him to just fall in love with it for a minute. Hudson recalled all the ways he'd been an asshole during his venture-capital days, and as the shame fell away he realized it was nothing to defend. Over the following weeks he actually became less of one, illustrating his point that shame holds bad habits in place.

  • A friend invited him to accept the trait rather than resist it, without judgment
  • As the shame dissolved, he saw it as actions he took, not proof he was a bad person
  • Weeks later he became less of an asshole
  • The real problem is often being ashamed of a trait, not the trait itself (smoker vs. ashamed of being a smoker)

“it's often shame that holds bad habits in place.”

Joe Hudson · 29:30
#shame#self-acceptance#habits#story
Story1:10:30

The 7-Minute Felt Gratitude Practice That Cleared His Debt

Hudson's single recommended experiment: seven minutes of gratitude a day with another person, spoken from the felt sense rather than a mental list. Broke and $40,000 in credit card debt while meditating for years, he realized even a billionaire he knew felt he didn't have enough. Shifting to gratitude for what he did have cleared his debt in three months and put $60,000 in the bank six months later.

  • Do at least 7 minutes of gratitude with another person daily, feeling it rather than listing it
  • After a couple of weeks, do the practice on the areas where you feel lack
  • He realized a billionaire he knew also felt he didn't have enough, giving him 'the experience of a billionaire'
  • Focusing on what he had cleared $40,000 of debt in three months and led to $60,000 saved in six
  • The superpower is running gratitude on whatever you feel you lack, be it time, love, or money

“7 minutes of gratitude with another person every day.”

Joe Hudson · 1:11:00

“I have the experience of a billionaire right now.”

Joe Hudson · 1:13:00
#gratitude#practice#mindset#story

Tool· 2

Tool42:00

The 'How Do I Enjoy This 10% More?' Question

Hudson's concrete practice: in any moment, ask 'how do I enjoy this 10% more?' It's not about changing anything external, but about how you experience it. He notes the exact phrasing matters, 'how do I' rather than 'what can I change', because trying tends to reduce enjoyment, whereas letting go of trying increases it. He also warns against using 'should', which invites failure and stagnation.

  • Ask 'how do I enjoy this 10% more?', not 'what can I change?'
  • It's internal: a deeper breath, settling into the body, relaxing
  • 'Trying' usually reduces enjoyment; letting go of trying increases it
  • Avoid 'should', which sets up failure and leads to stagnation

“you're going to stay listening to this for the next minute. How do you enjoy it 10% more?”

Joe Hudson · 42:00
#enjoyment#practice#productivity#tool
Tool57:30

Make Decisions Automatic by Living From Five Principles

Hudson recommends identifying the five or six principles that, if followed, would guarantee the life you want, then testing and refining each one. He keeps his to five, defines them by what they are and aren't, and tests each for about five days. His own include 'embrace intensity', 'connection first', and 'everything's an iteration', which make his decisions automatic, even welcoming criticism of his business.

  • Find the five or six principles that would guarantee the life you want, then experiment and refine
  • Keep it to five, and test each principle for about five days
  • Define a principle by what it is and what it isn't
  • His principles include 'embrace intensity', 'connection first', and 'everything's an iteration'
  • Some meetings start with 'what are you scared to say?' to embrace intensity

“one of the one of the principles that I live by is embrace intensity. So, it's not create intensity, it's embrace intensity.”

Joe Hudson · 59:00
#decision-making#principles#leadership#tool

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway03:00

The Two Things That Most Often Keep Ambitious People Stuck

Joe Hudson names the two patterns he most often sees holding successful tech people back. The first is an unproductive relationship with a critical inner voice that claims you need it to perform. The second is a broken relationship with emotions, where people suppress, compartmentalize, or manage feelings instead of harnessing them.

  • A critical inner voice insists 'you need me to be productive' but is usually a detriment to success
  • Even successful people with a harsh inner voice never get to enjoy the success
  • The second pattern is pretending you don't have emotions, compartmentalizing, or managing rather than harnessing them

“often times the critical voice in the head says, "You need me to be productive." but it's usually a huge detriment to to being able…”

Joe Hudson · 03:00
#mindset#emotions#inner-critic#career
Takeaway08:30

Change the Relationship With Your Inner Voice Instead of Trying to Silence It

Rather than trying to stop the negative voice (which doesn't work), Hudson recommends running a daily experiment in responding to it in a new way. An experimental mindset means you can't fail, so it sidesteps the brain's habenula, which teaches us to quit after a failure. Fully understanding the voice through experiments eventually makes it disappear.

  • Trying to control or stop the voice doesn't work well
  • Pick an experiment every day and respond in a new way, e.g. 'I see that you're really scared and I'm right here with you'
  • An experimental approach means you can never fail, bypassing the habenula that makes people quit after a slip
  • Fully understanding the voice through experiments makes the negative voice disappear

“I think the best way to work with the voice in the head is to pick an experiment every day and respond to the voice…”

Joe Hudson · 09:00
#self-talk#experiments#neuroscience#habits
Takeaway11:30

If You Fully Understand a Problem, You Already Know the Solution

Hudson pushes back on the idea that you can understand a problem but lack a solution. In his view, if you fully understand a problem, there's no question about the solution. He compares self-development to learning a river valley by walking through it rather than damming it, favoring exploration over control.

  • 'I understand the problem but don't have a solution' means you don't fully understand it yet
  • Fully understanding the voice in your head through experiments makes the whole thing go away
  • Self-development works better as exploration (walking the river valley) than control (damming it)

“if you understood the problem, there there would be no question about the solution.”

Joe Hudson · 11:30
#problem-solving#self-development#mindset
Takeaway40:00

Enjoyment, Not Speed, Is the Real Measure of Efficiency

Hudson argues we mislabel getting things done fast as efficient, when real efficiency is ending a task with more energy than you started. Like calling a Ferrari fast rather than efficient, we conflate the two in our own lives. If you figure out how to enjoy what you do 10% more, you become 10% more efficient and usually raise the quality too.

  • Doing something fast can leave you exhausted, which is not efficient
  • Real efficiency is feeling more energy and wanting to do it again tomorrow
  • Enjoying what you do 10% more makes you 10% more efficient
  • Enjoyment strongly correlates with quality and staying power

“What's efficient is if at the end of whatever you did, you feel like you have more energy.”

Joe Hudson · 40:30

“you are 10% more efficient. Not only that, usually the quality is going to get a lot better, too.”

Joe Hudson · 41:00
#productivity#enjoyment#efficiency