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John Mark Nickels (Uber, Waymo, DoorDash)06 October 2024

Becoming a conscious leader: Leading without fear, finding your life’s objective function, and getting better at vision and strategy

6Frameworks
15Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster17:30

Obsessing over optics got him promoted less

JM found that the more he focused on optics, slides and how he showed up, the less he got promoted; dropping that focus and pouring energy into the actual product is what moved him up the ladder. Optics matter as a means to an end, but they aren't the outcome that matters. He borrows the Buddhist line about not mistaking the finger for the moon.

  • Focusing on optics and decks correlated with slower promotion
  • Focusing on the product itself is what accelerated his career
  • Optics still matter at senior levels for resource allocation
  • The presentation is the finger; the product is the moon

the more I focused on uh yeah the how I show up and Optics and having a good deck and all this the less I…

JM Nickels · 17:30

don't mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon and the finger pointing at the Moon can be the presentation the okr

JM Nickels · 21:00
#career#product-management#influence

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take15:30

Chasing approval makes you a 'hungry ghost'

JM argues you don't actually need your boss's approval to be okay, and that sourcing self-worth from external wins is a trap. He compares chasing promotions, money and titles to a hungry ghost: no amount is ever enough, like a never-ending sugar addiction. The work is to source self-worth from within.

  • You don't need external approval in order to be okay
  • Seeking approval, control and security from the world is endless
  • External wins feel good briefly then leave you wanting more
  • Feedback becomes a gift rather than a threat when you're not seeking approval

I was like a Hungry Ghost it's like it doesn't matter how many Michelin star meals and promotions and money and title and whatever right…

JM Nickels · 16:00
#self-worth#psychology#career
Hot Take55:30

Bring your emotions into work, don't leave them home

JM's contrarian belief is that emotions belong in the workplace, not checked at the door. An emotion is energy moving in the body carrying signal: fear wants attention, sadness wants a letting-go, anger flags something not in service, joy wants celebrating. Noticing and even naming these in a meeting can transform its tone.

  • An emotion is energy moving in the body, often paired with a thought
  • Each emotion carries wisdom: fear = pay attention, sadness = let go, anger = change something, joy = celebrate
  • Notice where each emotion physically shows up in your body
  • Naming fear aloud in a tense meeting can shift the whole conversation

what is an emotion It's Just Energy moving on the body

JM Nickels · 56:00

welcome emotions maybe even talk about them God forbid in the workplace

JM Nickels · 58:30
#emotions#leadership#self-awareness

Explainer· 6

Explainer02:30

What conscious leadership actually means

JM Nickels defines leadership as having influence in the world, which by his definition makes everyone a leader regardless of title. The 'conscious' part is waking up to your interior world, questioning inherited beliefs, and taking responsibility for the influence you have. As he became more senior he leaned into creating space rather than being the loudest voice.

  • Leadership = having influence; everyone leads because everyone influences someone
  • Consciousness = becoming aware of your biases and inherited belief systems
  • The goal is taking responsibility for your influence in the world
  • Senior leaders create power imbalances, so hear from others first and don't need to win the meeting

leadership is uh broadly defined as having influence in the world and so by that definition to me everyone is a leader right because we…

JM Nickels · 02:30

I want to hear from other people first I want to create space and like I don't need to win the argument in the meeting

JM Nickels · 04:30
#leadership#self-awareness#management
Explainer13:30

Allow the emotion instead of fighting it

When stress or self-doubt hits before a big presentation, JM's counterintuitive advice is to allow the emotion rather than suppress it. Fighting a thought creates a self-reinforcing 'cognitive emotive loop' of anxious thinking. He illustrates with the pink-elephant test: what you resist persists.

  • Suppressing a fearful thought triggers a cognitive-emotive loop of more anxiety
  • Thoughts and emotions are transient; allowing them lets them pass
  • The pink-elephant test shows you can't stop a thought by resisting it
  • First step under pressure is simply to allow whatever is arising

don't think of a pink elephant what' you just think of and he's like a pink elephant

JM Nickels · 13:30

what you resist will persist and what you fear will appear

JM Nickels · 14:00
#emotions#mindfulness#psychology
Explainer22:30

How to actually get better at strategy and vision

JM says there's no magic toolkit; strategy skill comes from working on a mission you're genuinely passionate about and immersing yourself deeply for years, not weeks. He layers first-principles thinking on top, questioning why things are the way they are, e.g. why it takes a 4,000-pound vehicle to move one person three miles.

  • Step one is working in an area you have tremendous passion for; passion is the fuel
  • Deep immersion over years beats jumping between hot spaces
  • First-principles thinking asks why things are the way they are
  • Inefficiency is a doorway to opportunity

why do we need a 4,000 pound vehicle to move a human three miles okay

JM Nickels · 25:00
#strategy#vision#first-principles#product-management
Explainer27:30

Why cheap robotaxis won't kill shared rides

JM applies the economics concept of induced demand to autonomy: flooding streets with cheap single-occupancy autonomous cars will just create more gridlock, the same way free text messages or an extra highway lane get consumed instantly. From first principles, that makes shared rides and smaller form factors an enduring part of future transport.

  • Induced demand: when something gets cheaper, consumption explodes to fill it
  • Free texts vs 50-cent texts, and added highway lanes, both illustrate it
  • Cheap single-occupancy robotaxis would worsen congestion, not fix it
  • Therefore shared rides and bikes/scooters remain structurally necessary

used to when text messages cost 50 cents a piece how many did you send right versus now with free you send a million same…

JM Nickels · 27:30
#autonomy#economics#transportation#first-principles
Explainer47:00

Uber vs DoorDash DNA: Amazon vs Shopify

JM contrasts the founding DNA of the two companies: Uber started rider/consumer-centric (born from wanting a ride), while DoorDash started merchant-centric (born from helping small businesses succeed). That difference shapes even why each seeks selection. His analogy: Uber is to Amazon as DoorDash is to Shopify.

  • Uber's DNA is consumer/rider-centric; selection is a means to a great rider experience
  • DoorDash's DNA is merchant-centric; wanting every restaurant to thrive yields selection as a byproduct
  • Uber:Amazon :: DoorDash:Shopify
  • Neither DNA is right or wrong; doing both at once risks losing focus

the door Das thesis was how can we help small businesses be more successful and delivery was just the first instantiation of that

JM Nickels · 47:30

the analogy I use is like uber is to Amazon as D Das is to Shopify if that makes sense right

JM Nickels · 48:30
#uber#doordash#marketplaces#strategy
Explainer50:30

Solving self-driving is not the same as scaling a fleet

From his Waymo commercialization role, JM's key lesson is that building a self-driving car on a test track is a completely different problem than operating thousands of vehicles at scale, cleaning, charging and maintaining them, and building the ride-share marketplace on top. The autonomy is the visible tip; the operational iceberg underneath is what actually takes years.

  • Test-track self-driving and scaled fleet operations are different problem statements
  • Commercialization means ops, cleaning, charging, maintenance plus classic growth and marketplace work
  • A Waymo-one vision has multiple pillars beyond the autonomy itself
  • Outsiders underestimate the operational depth of running a ride-share network

building a self-driving car on a test track is a very different problem statement than uh scaling a fleet of thousands of cars

JM Nickels · 51:00
#waymo#autonomy#operations#marketplaces

Story· 1

Story08:30

How early Uber ran on fear and pushed him inward

JM describes the Travis-era Uber as electric and visionary but not a conscious-leadership place; like many organizations it ran on fear. As a junior PM overwhelmed in weekly reviews while raising a six-month-old and having just moved cities, he nearly snapped, which is what led him to meditation and inner work.

  • Uber 1.0 had an audacious mission but ran on carrots and sticks / fear
  • Fear-based management works, which is why organizations default to it
  • A near-breaking-point as a junior PM pushed him into meditation and inner work
  • He wanted to bring that inner work to teams to shift them out of lizard-brain arguing

there was this mission of making Transportation as reliable as running water for anyone anywhere which is you know bold audacious

JM Nickels · 08:00

it was like many organizations that run on fear because you can do that you know carriage and sticks do work

JM Nickels · 08:30
#uber#culture#burnout#leadership

Tool· 1

Tool1:11:00

Eight Sleep smart mattress

JM recommends Eight Sleep, a smart mattress cover with water tubes and sensors that measure heart rate, HRV and body temperature and program a temperature curve to maximize deep and REM sleep. He ties it to showing up with the right energy and mindset, since poor sleep starts your day on the wrong foot.

  • A cover with water tubes fits over any mattress and is controlled via an app
  • Sensors track heart rate, HRV and body temperature
  • It runs cool for deep sleep then warms you to wake, and reports sleep stats
  • High-quality sleep underpins showing up with energy and aliveness

eight sleep you know is a smart mattress company they're on their third or fourth rev now

JM Nickels · 1:11:00
#sleep#product#health

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway26:00

Close your eyes and imagine the future

JM's practical method for building vision is to literally close his eyes and picture the world as far out as he can, 5 or 10 years, developing a salient, exciting image of what a city or product could look like. It's not about getting the prediction right; it's about developing a picture that fires you up and that you can bring others into.

  • Physically imagine the world 5-10 years out in vivid detail
  • The point is a salient, motivating picture, not a correct prediction
  • Do it first alone in a quiet, contemplative space, then bring it to teams
  • You can't schedule vision-work between back-to-back meetings

I I try to just like close my eyes and imagine the future as far out as I can you know it's like five years…

JM Nickels · 26:00
#vision#strategy#creativity
Takeaway43:30

Balancing vision and execution (ready, fire, aim)

JM warns you can veer too far either way: early Uber locked PhDs in a room for weeks on future pricing theory with no idea how to build it, while DoorDash sometimes ran 'ready, fire, aim.' If forced to pick, he biases toward running through a wall over paralysis, because action always produces learnings and feedback.

  • Too much vision leads to beautiful whiteboards nobody can build
  • Too much execution means running through walls without checking they're the right ones
  • The balance is dynamic; ease off execution when you need to soul-search strategy
  • When unsure, bias toward action because you still get learnings either way

it's like ready fire [Laughter] aim

JM Nickels · 43:30

I'd rather biased towards running through a wall than not doing anything because you still get learnings from that

JM Nickels · 49:30
#execution#strategy#decision-making
Takeaway1:00:00

Design your life's objective function from 'future me'

JM's core life advice is to get conscious about your objective function instead of inheriting it by default. He tests choices against 'future me' five years out, who won't care about a slightly better presentation but will care enormously about the relationship with his daughters. Awareness of mortality punctuates reality and forces a reprioritization.

  • Most people run an implied objective function inherited from parents, church or community
  • Test today's actions against what 'future me' will care about in five years
  • Short-term-driven success can quietly cost you your closest relationships (per Clayton Christensen)
  • Awareness that life ends forces you to stop wasting time on what doesn't matter

five years from now I'm not going to give a [ __ ] if I made the presentation slightly better but I'm going to care a lot…

JM Nickels · 00:00

most of us just aren't really tuned into an awareness that our lives will come to an end we try to pretend like we're going…

JM Nickels · 00:30
#life-design#priorities#mortality#family
Takeaway1:05:00

Break out of victim consciousness

JM's closing challenge is to commit to leaving victim mentality, the sense that life is happening to you at the effect of other people and circumstances. The radical shift is taking responsibility for how you see the world; you may not change the weather or an election, but you can change how you relate to it. He cites Viktor Frankl's compassion for his oppressors as the extreme proof.

  • Victim consciousness is living 'at the effect of' others and circumstances
  • Real injustices exist, but most of the time you have more agency than you feel
  • The unlock is taking responsibility for how you see and relate to the world
  • Frankl in the camps showed this is possible even under horrific conditions

commit to breaking out of victim Consciousness in mentality

JM Nickels · 1:05:00

I am willing to take responsibility for how I see the world and I may not be able to change the weather or the election…

JM Nickels · 1:05:30
#responsibility#agency#mindset