Uri Levine (Waze co-founder, serial entrepreneur)16 February 2025

A founder’s guide to crisis management

5Frameworks

15Insights

Episode overview

Uri Levine divides existential startup crises into cash crises and the loss of product-market fit, illustrating both with Waze and several other companies he helped build. He argues that founders must assess what changed, how long it may last, and their remaining runway, then decide and communicate quickly before options disappear. For a lost value proposition, teams should return to first principles, validate a real customer problem, and pivot only when they retain a meaningful advantage and the energy to rebuild.

Key ideas

Major startup crises fall into two broad categories: a disrupted cash plan and the loss of product-market fit.
In a cash crisis, determine what is affected, estimate how long the disruption will last, calculate runway, and act immediately.
Waiting to reduce burn permanently sacrifices runway and strategic options.
Teams need transparent communication, visible key metrics, and decisions delivered with conviction during a crisis.
If product-market fit disappears, return to square one and ask whether you would pursue the same direction if starting today.
A credible pivot begins with a validated problem, then tests whether the company has an advantage in technology, team, or market knowledge.
Founders should validate the new path with their team and investors, while honestly assessing their own energy to restart the journey.
Maintaining roughly 18 months of runway can make crises easier to survive, although it cannot prevent them.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Finance4 steps

Decide-Today Runway Math

Cost cuts only buy runway if you make them now; every month you wait permanently destroys optionality

Read →

Leadership4 steps

Leading a Team Through Crisis

Radical transparency plus generosity-first equity keeps your best people through the storm that needs them most

Read →

Mindset2 steps

The Fresh-Start Test

Ask 'if I started today, would I do this?' — and if the answer is different, change now, not next life

Read →

Strategy5 steps

The Pivot Decision Algorithm

Five ordered gates — problem, assets, energy, team, capital — that decide whether to pivot or shut down after losing PMF

Read →

Leadership4 steps

The Two-Crisis Triage

Classify every founder crisis as cash or product-market-fit, then run three diagnostic questions before acting

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 9

Uri LevineMentionsAuthor and startup founder associated with the principle of falling in love with the problem rather than the solution.
“Uri is the co-founder of Waze along with nine other companies.”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter
“Today my guest is Uri Levine.”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Uri LevineMentionsAuthor and startup founder associated with the principle of falling in love with the problem rather than the solution.
“He's been on 20 different startup boards, has been an advisor to over 50 different startups”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
Larry SilversteinMentionsmaybe the most significant real estate developers in New York is is Silverstein, right? And he built the the World Trade Center
“maybe the most significant real estate developers in New York is is Silverstein, right? And he built the the World Trade Center”
▶ Watch at ~35:30approx.
Christina GilbertMentionsI'm excited to chat with Christina Gilbert, the founder of OneSchema
“I'm excited to chat with Christina Gilbert, the founder of OneSchema”
▶ Watch at ~41:30approx.
Dalton CaldwellMentionsDalton is managing director and group partner at y combinator where he's worked for over 10 years across 21 different YC batches
“Dalton Caldwell, who was on the podcast. He's a partner at YC”
▶ Watch at ~43:30approx.
Tobi LütkeMentionsif you look at Toby from Shopify, his scores aren't that good, but that company's doing really, really well.
“I just had Toby from Shopify on the podcast”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:00approx.
Harley FinkelsteinMentionsI'm a good friend with Harley Finkelstein, the president of Shopify
“I'm a good friend with Harley Finkelstein, the president of Shopify”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:00approx.
Albert EinsteinMentionsThere's that great Einstein quote about insanity being repeating things that you're doing, expecting a different outcome.
“Albert Einstein used to say that if you haven't failed, that's because you haven't tried new things before.”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:00approx.

Resources · 34

WazeCoinedsoftware · Uri Levine and co-founders
“Uri is the co-founder of Waze along with nine other companies.”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
WorkOSMentionscompany · WorkOS, Inc.
“Check it out at workos.com to learn more.”
▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
RipplingRecommendscompany · Parker Conrad
“For a limited time, Rippling is giving Lenny's listeners 3 months off. To redeem, visit rippling.com/lenny.”
▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
Fall in Love with the Problem, Not the SolutionCoinedbook · Uri Levine
“I wrote the book in order to make a bigger impact.”
▶ Watch at ~7:00approx.
MoovitMentionssoftware
“So, I built Waze and Moovit and a dozens of other startups.”
▶ Watch at ~7:00approx.
COVID-19 pandemicMentionsevent
“COVID was an excellent example.”
▶ Watch at ~8:00approx.
OrderChatMentionscompany
“there were no more reservations for restaurants, right? Now, we were really good at that”
▶ Watch at ~9:30approx.
iPhoneUsesproduct · Apple
“I'm using iPhone, obviously a lot of people using iPhone and I'm using that for a long while.”
▶ Watch at ~13:00approx.
Windows MobileMentionssoftware · Microsoft
“They own mobile Windows mobile operating system that was running on pretty much all the phones in the world”
▶ Watch at ~13:30approx.
FivoMentionscompany
“One of my startups called Fivo died because of change in regulation.”
▶ Watch at ~15:30approx.
iCloudMentionssoftware · Apple
“when Apple launched Apple photos or iCloud, I think it was iCloud.”
▶ Watch at ~19:00approx.
AppleMentionscompany · Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, and Ronald Wayne
“when Apple launched Apple photos or iCloud, I think it was iCloud.”
▶ Watch at ~19:00approx.
DropboxMentionscompany · Drew Houston and Arash Ferdowsi
“Drew Houston on the podcast, founder of Dropbox”
▶ Watch at ~19:00approx.
GoogleMentionscompany · Google
“one day in 2010 Google announced their free turn-by-turn navigation.”
▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
Google MapsMentionssoftware · Google
“they enabled that on Google Maps, right? Turn-by-turn navigation”
▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
TomTomMentionscompany
“The first one is actually TomTom. TomTom was the provider of the maps for Google to do navigation.”
▶ Watch at ~20:30approx.
GoogleMentionscompany · Google
“eventually Google acquired us”
▶ Watch at ~21:00approx.
WazeMentionssoftware · Uri Levine and co-founders
“eventually Google acquired us”
▶ Watch at ~21:00approx.
MicrosoftMentionscompany · Bill Gates and Paul Allen
“Microsoft decided that, wait a minute, we don't have our own maps, so let's invest in Waze.”
▶ Watch at ~23:30approx.
WeSkiMentionscompany
“today the company is actually very successful.”
▶ Watch at ~34:00approx.
World Trade CenterMentionsplace
“he built the the World Trade Center and pretty much everything on the Hudson.”
▶ Watch at ~35:30approx.
OneSchemaCoinedsoftware · Christina Gilbert
“Christina Gilbert, the founder of OneSchema”
▶ Watch at ~41:30approx.
OneSchemaMentionssoftware · Christina Gilbert
“we just launched OneSchema File Feeds”
▶ Watch at ~42:00approx.
OneSchemaRecommendssoftware · Christina Gilbert
“if you want to learn more, head on over to oneschema.co.”
▶ Watch at ~43:00approx.
PonteraMentionscompany · Uri Levine and co-founders
“back then we called that FeeX”
▶ Watch at ~1:00:00approx.
ShopifyMentionscompany · Shopify
“the number of times Shopify almost died, people have no idea.”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:00approx.
ZipMentionscompany · Rujul Zaparde and Lu Cheng
“I have friends who started this company Zip, which is a procurement a really good procurement platform.”
▶ Watch at ~1:10:30approx.
Qualcomm VenturesMentionscompany
“I had this dialogue with Qualcomm Ventures”
▶ Watch at ~1:14:00approx.
Lenny's PodcastMentionspodcast · Lenny Rachitsky
“I really like this podcast. I really like it.”
▶ Watch at ~1:21:30approx.
AmazonMentionscompany · Jeff Bezos
“it is already available for pre-orders on Amazon”
▶ Watch at ~1:22:00approx.
LinkedInRecommendswebsite · LinkedIn
“you can follow me on LinkedIn”
▶ Watch at ~1:22:30approx.
Uri Levine's websiteRecommendswebsite · Uri Levine
“you can go to my website orylevin.com.”
▶ Watch at ~1:22:30approx.
Fall in Love with the Problem, Not the SolutionRecommendsbook · Uri Levine
“And I want you to read the book.”
▶ Watch at ~1:23:00approx.
Lenny's PodcastMentionspodcast · Lenny Rachitsky
“You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.”
▶ Watch at ~1:23:30approx.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take35:30

Luck Is Opportunity Meets Readiness

Uri credits luck as central to startup success, citing developer Larry Silverstein who called his career 85% luck and joked he'd swap his 15% skill for more luck. Uri reframes luck as opportunity meeting readiness: opportunity isn't always in your control, but readiness is.

Silverstein attributed his success to 85% luck and 15% skill
Asked what he'd change, he said he'd replace the skill with more luck
Uri defines luck as opportunity meets readiness
Opportunity isn't always in your control, but readiness is up to you

“I'm going to replace the 15% skills with additional 15% luck.”
Uri Levine · 36:00

“I will define luck as opportunity meets readiness. Readiness is up to you.”
Uri Levine · 36:00

#luck#mindset#success

Hot Take1:11:30

If You'd Start Today, Change Today

Uri offers a question to apply beyond crises: knowing what you know today, would you do something different? If yes, change now rather than waiting for the next company, relationship, or life. He extends it to careers: if you can't fix an unhappy job within three months, leave, because quitting means firing your own boss.

Ask: knowing what I know today, would I do something different? If yes, do it today
Today is the first day of the rest of your life; don't wait for the next one
If someone else acts on it first, they'll compete you out of business
For an unhappy job: try to change it for 3 months, and if you can't, leave
Quitting your job means firing your own boss

“today is the first day of the rest of your life.”
Uri Levine · 1:12:00

“You fire your own job boss. That's what it means.”
Uri Levine · 1:13:00

#mindset#decision-making#career#reinvention

Explainer· 1

Explainer10:30

The Two Types of Crisis Every Founder Faces

Uri defines a crisis as something significant you already had suddenly disappearing. There are two abstract types: a cash crisis (a big customer, revenue, or investor vanishes) and a loss of product-market fit (regulation, competition, or a market shift makes your product irrelevant). He stresses that industry-wide pain is irrelevant to you: your problem is your problem.

A crisis = something significant you already had suddenly disappears
Cash crisis: funding, revenue, or a major customer disappears
Product-market-fit crisis: your product becomes irrelevant and you must go back to square one
The rest of the world suffering the same problem doesn't help you at all

“So your problem is your problem. That's it.”
Uri Levine · 10:30

“I will define a crisis as something that you already had that is significant disappears.”
Uri Levine · 10:30

#crisis#cash#product-market-fit#founders

Story· 4

Story08:30

How COVID Killed OrderChat Overnight

Uri describes OrderChat, one of the first AI chat products (2020), which let people book restaurant reservations by chat without any restaurant-side integration. It was very successful in Israel until COVID shut every restaurant down, erasing all reservations. Without funding to pivot, the company had to close.

OrderChat was an AI reservations chat that needed no restaurant integration, so it could cover all restaurants fast
It was very successful in Israel before COVID
COVID closed restaurants, eliminating the product's entire use case
The company lacked funding to pivot into something new and shut down

“And that turned out to be pretty successful, and then COVID hit.”
Uri Levine · 09:00

“What happened to that was COVID.”
Uri Levine · 09:30

#covid#startups#product-market-fit#shutdown

Story15:30

How a Regulator Killed Fivo in One Day

Uri's startup Fivo let Israelis file tax returns in under three minutes, growing the filing market 25% in a year by enabling non-mandatory filers. Because it increased the load on the tax system, the Israeli tax authority shut them down overnight. Near break-even and lacking runway to fight the regulator, Uri lost product-market fit instantly and resolved never to build on regulation again.

Fivo let people file tax returns in under 3 minutes when filing is not mandatory in Israel
It grew the size of the filing market by 25% in one year
The tax authority shut it down overnight because it increased system load
Fighting a regulator needs time and funding Fivo didn't have
Uri decided personally never to rely on a regulator's permission again

“change in the regulation and we lost product market fit overnight.”
Uri Levine · 17:00

“I don't want to rely on a regulator to to allow me or not allow me to do what I want to do.”
Uri Levine · 18:00

#regulation#product-market-fit#shutdown#taxes

Story19:30

How Waze Survived Google's Free Navigation

When Google announced free turn-by-turn navigation in 2010, the entire industry told Waze it was doomed and investors turned their backs the night before a key Khosla Ventures meeting. Waze survived because its use case was different: daily commuters who open the app twice a day, versus Google Maps used only occasionally. Ironically, a surprised Microsoft, lacking its own maps, ended up investing.

Google's 2010 free turn-by-turn navigation blindsided the industry and Waze
Investors abandoned Waze right before an all-partners Khosla Ventures meeting
Waze's edge was a different use case: daily commuters using it twice a day
Google Maps is used 'when I need it'; Waze is used every day
Microsoft, caught without its own maps, invested in Waze unexpectedly

“everyone in the industry told us that we are doomed, right?”
Uri Levine · 21:00

“If I ask them how often they use Google Maps, they will tell me, when I need it.”
Uri Levine · 22:00

#waze#competition#fundraising#product-market-fit

Story30:00

Surviving COVID With a Pay-to-Play Down Round

WeSki, the 'booking.com of ski vacations,' expected its first profitable year when COVID shut down European skiing, turning a few cancellations per day into hundreds. With strategic investors from the travel industry too consumed by their own crises to help, WeSki forced a pay-to-play down round, resized lean, and raised just enough to survive two seasons. It emerged profitable.

COVID hit in what was supposed to be WeSki's first profitable year, so cash reserves were thin
Travel-industry strategic investors were busy with their own crises and wouldn't help
A pay-to-play down round forces new capital at the expense of non-participating existing investors
The company resized very lean and raised just enough to survive two seasons
It used COVID downtime to improve the product and came out profitable

“the last thing on their list that they care about is a startup that they invested at.”
Uri Levine · 32:30

“A pay to play is actually sort of forcing new investors at the expense of the existing one, right?”
Uri Levine · 33:30

#covid#fundraising#down-round#travel

Takeaway· 8

Takeaway12:00

Product-Market Fit Has Only One Metric: Retention

Uri argues product-market fit is simple to measure with a single metric: retention. If you create value, customers come back; if they don't come back, you aren't creating value. He notes no company ever survived without figuring out product-market fit.

Product-market fit has exactly one metric: retention
If customers come back, you're creating value
If they don't come back, you're not creating value
Companies that never found product-market fit simply died

“product market fit in general have only one metric, only one metric, retention.”
Uri Levine · 12:00

“If they are not coming back, that means that you are not creating value.”
Uri Levine · 12:30

#product-market-fit#retention#metrics

Takeaway37:00

It's Not the Founder's Fault, It's Their Responsibility

Uri reframes the idea that failure is 'the founder's fault' as responsibility instead. Even when rising interest rates or an industry-wide shock is out of your control, you have only one company and must make it succeed. Blaming external forces won't help; assuming responsibility means you control your own destiny and raise your odds of success.

Prefer 'responsibility' over 'fault' for outcomes
External, industry-wide problems are no excuse: you have only one company
Blaming outside forces afterward won't make you successful
Assuming responsibility means controlling your own destiny and increasing success odds

“I wouldn't say fault. I would say responsibility.”
Uri Levine · 37:00

“You have only one company. You need to make sure that this company is successful.”
Uri Levine · 37:30

#leadership#responsibility#mindset#founders

Takeaway38:30

Never Give Up (and Decide With Conviction)

Uri names 'never give up' the single most important behavior of a successful startup CEO, paired with making decisions with conviction so the team will follow. He allows only two valid reasons to quit: the mission is wrong (the problem disappeared), or the team is wrong and you can't fix it (e.g. toxic investors you can't remove).

Never giving up is the most important behavior of a successful startup CEO
Decisions must be made with conviction or the team won't follow
Valid reason to quit #1: the mission is wrong because the problem disappeared
Valid reason to quit #2: the team is wrong and you can't change it (e.g. toxic investors)

“never give up is um is the most important behavior of successful CEOs of startup.”
Uri Levine · 39:30

“you need to make them with conviction because if you don't make them with conviction, then what will happen is that the team is not…”
Uri Levine · 40:00

#leadership#resilience#decision-making#founders

Takeaway43:30

The Only Way a Startup Dies Is Running Out of Money

Uri states plainly that the sole way a startup dies is running out of cash, just like any company that can't pay its bills. This reframes crisis management as, above all, the discipline of not running out of money.

Running out of money is the only way a startup dies
All companies die the same way: they can't pay their bills
Most crisis tactics are ultimately ways to avoid running out of money

“That's the only way that they die.”
Uri Levine · 43:30

“all the companies in the world, right? They are unable to pay their bills and therefore they die.”
Uri Levine · 44:00

#cash#runway#survival

Takeaway44:00

When You Can't Pay People, Give Them More Equity

When cash runs short, Uri has diluted all shareholders to give employees roughly five times more equity, asking them to trust the recovery so everyone wins if it works. He frames staying with your team through unpaid months as true leadership, built beforehand through transparency and recognition, because your team is what delivers success.

Dilute all shareholders to grant employees far more equity when cash is short
Ask the team to trust the cause and the recovery: everyone wins if it works
True leadership is telling people to stay even through months you may not be able to pay
Leadership is built before a crisis via transparency, recognition, and prioritizing the team

“You don't know that, but this is true leadership.”
Uri Levine · 45:00

“you're going to be successful if your team delivers.”
Uri Levine · 46:00

#team#equity#leadership#retention

Takeaway46:30

Don't Sugarcoat: Radical Transparency in a Crisis

Uri advises total transparency during a crisis because everyone already knows one is happening and hiding information destroys trust. Share the essence without sugarcoating (e.g. 'the investors are all saying no'), keep key company metrics visible in the office at all times, and give specific numbers when people ask.

Hiding information during a crisis makes people leave and destroys trust
Everyone already knows there's a crisis, so this is when they most expect your leadership
Don't sugarcoat: share the essence, not every investor email
Display key metrics in the office so drops are already visible; give specific numbers when asked

“So number one, don't sugarcoat.”
Uri Levine · 48:00

“if the fact that it's ugly, if you don't tell that it's ugly, it's still ugly.”
Uri Levine · 48:30

#transparency#leadership#communication#team

Takeaway50:00

Why Acting Fast Doubles Your Runway

Uri explains the math behind acting immediately in a cash crisis: cut burn 50% today and six months of runway becomes a year. Wait three months and the same cut leaves only nine months total. If you decide today you need 12 months and don't act today, you can never get to 12 months, so the only moment to choose is now.

Cutting burn 50% today turns 6 months of runway into a full year
Waiting 3 months before the same cut leaves only 9 months total
If you need 12 months and don't act today, you'll never reach 12 months
Delay steadily removes options: the only time to choose is today

“If you reduce burn by 50% today, then you simply increase your run rate to a year.”
Uri Levine · 52:30

“If you decided today that you need 12 months, and you don't act today, you will never have 12 months.”
Uri Levine · 53:00

#runway#burn-rate#cash#decision-making

Takeaway54:30

Cutting Cost Means Cutting People

Uri notes that 70-75% of a startup's budget is people, so real cost reduction always comes down to them. Options include layoffs, across-the-board salary cuts, or management giving up its own pay, and the right choice depends on how committed the organization feels. Cutting perks like office coffee saves nothing and only breeds dissatisfaction.

70-75% of a startup budget is people; everything else is nickels and dimes
Layoffs are generally cleaner than cutting everyone's salary
A committed team may prefer shared salary cuts over layoffs
Management sacrificing its own salary demonstrates leadership
Cutting perks like coffee saves nothing and creates dissatisfaction

“if you look at the startup and you look at the budget, 70% of the budget is people.”
Uri Levine · 56:00

“this is how you create dissatisfaction with the team”
Uri Levine · 56:30

#cost-cutting#layoffs#team#budget

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

Decide-Today Runway Math

Leading a Team Through Crisis

The Fresh-Start Test

The Pivot Decision Algorithm

The Two-Crisis Triage

People & resources mentioned

People · 9

Resources · 34

Insights & moments

◆Hot Take· 2

Luck Is Opportunity Meets Readiness

If You'd Start Today, Change Today

✶Explainer· 1

The Two Types of Crisis Every Founder Faces

❝Story· 4

How COVID Killed OrderChat Overnight

How a Regulator Killed Fivo in One Day

How Waze Survived Google's Free Navigation

Surviving COVID With a Pay-to-Play Down Round

▲Takeaway· 8

Product-Market Fit Has Only One Metric: Retention

It's Not the Founder's Fault, It's Their Responsibility

Never Give Up (and Decide With Conviction)

The Only Way a Startup Dies Is Running Out of Money

When You Can't Pay People, Give Them More Equity

Don't Sugarcoat: Radical Transparency in a Crisis

Why Acting Fast Doubles Your Runway

Cutting Cost Means Cutting People

Hot Take· 2

Explainer· 1

Story· 4

Takeaway· 8