Tool-Agnostic Hiring Test
Screen martech candidates for curiosity, engineering scrappiness, and freedom from tool bias.
- Difficulty
- Easy
- Time to result
- ~weeks to results
- Steps
- 4
- Confidence
- 90%
Hay's method for hiring martech people screens on two traits and two interview questions. Because there are far too many tools to ever master, he prizes intellectual curiosity and engineering scrappiness over tool expertise. His interview questions surface how a candidate thinks and whether they are biased toward tools they already know rather than working backward from the problem.
Origin
Austin Hay's hiring approach as head of martech at Ramp; the 'how did you prepare' question he credits to an a16z partner relayed via his wife.
Core principles
- 01You can never be an expert in every tool, so curiosity and fast learning beat tool knowledge.
- 02Scrappy engineering (JavaScript, Python, reading API docs, making an API request) matters more than being a great engineer.
- 03The best hires are tool-agnostic: they see tools as things to solve problems, not solutions to reapply.
- 04Software skills for this role are teachable in about a six-month self-taught investment; no CS degree required.
How to run it
- 1
Screen for intellectual curiosity
Look for genuine interest in learning about the world, because the constant churn of third-party tools means the person must always be learning and can never master everything.
- 2
Screen for engineering scrappiness
Confirm they can get around technically: know some JavaScript and Python, read API documentation, and make an API request, even if they are not a strong software engineer.
Pro tip A former engineer who never wants to engineer again is super-powerful here but rare, partly because backend engineering usually pays more.
- 3
Ask how they prepared for the interview
This reveals how the person thinks, plans, and takes things seriously. A rich, unprompted answer (what they read, did, their routine) signals a systems thinker; needing prompts to list preparation is a negative signal.
Pro tip The more interesting and complex the answer, the more interesting and complex the candidate.
- 4
Give the 'change report by Friday' prompt
Ask: you start tomorrow in our martech system and by Friday must write up everything we should change; what do you do? This separates tool-biased candidates (who immediately name tools they have used) from problem-first thinkers (who ask what problems you are trying to solve).
Watch out Tool-biased candidates, often including some PMs, default to tools they already used because it is a shortcut; hire the ones who work backward from the problem instead.
In the wild
Hay asks candidates how they prepared for the interview. A candidate who volunteers that they read specific things, did specific research, and had a routine reveals themselves as a systems thinker, whereas one who must be prompted to enumerate any preparation reveals the opposite.
→ The single question yields a fast, high-signal read of how the person thinks and plans right at the outset of the interview.
Common mistakes
Hiring for tool expertise
Because there are far too many martech tools to master and the landscape constantly changes, selecting for deep expertise in specific current tools instead of curiosity and learning speed picks the wrong trait.
Missing tool bias in candidates
A candidate who reflexively recommends tools they have used before is solving by shortcut rather than working backward from the problem, and will reapply the wrong tool when the problem differs.
Is it for you?
Best for
Hiring managers building a small, cross-functional martech or systems team who need generalist problem-solvers over tool specialists.
Not ideal for
Roles that genuinely require deep, certified expertise in one specific platform rather than broad adaptability.
From the transcript
“you have to be both very interested in learning and very willing to quickly learn if you want to be in the space um and…”
“they're Scrappy in engineering they might not be the best engineer possible but they know how to get around you know they know JavaScript they…”
“you're coming in tomorrow to our marketing Tech system and by Friday you have to like write up a report on all the things we…”
From the episode
The ultimate guide to Martech
Austin Hay (Reforge, Ramp, Runway)