The A+ Middler and the Next Step
Founders are already elite at the middle of a sale — the only skill to add is never leaving a meeting without a next step.
- Difficulty
- Easy
- Time to result
- ~weeks to results
- Steps
- 5
- Confidence
- 92%
Non-sales founders assume selling requires skills they don't have and never will. Lemkin's reframe: almost all founders are A+ middlers — better than any rep at the substantive middle of a sale, where the prospect's real questions get answered. What they lack is only the opening and the closing. The minimum viable upgrade is to never end a call without an agreed next step, marching deals step by step until they reach the red zone, where asking for money becomes natural.
Origin
Jason Lemkin's coaching of product-minded founders at SaaStr, grounded in his EchoSign experience and reinforced by his observation that even mediocre professional reps are bad at securing next steps, which is why founders can outperform them.
Core principles
- 01You are already an A+ middler — you can run circles around 98% of reps at a bigger competitor on substance.
- 02Reps break down past the first five basic questions; founders don't.
- 03Selling B2B is problem-solving, not used-car hustling. You are selling a Tesla Model 3 Performance, not a used car.
- 04The best reps will tell a prospect not to buy — that confidence is what closes.
- 05The next step never has to be a check; it just has to exist.
- 06In 2024 it is a four-stakeholder sale, not a one-stakeholder sale — the easiest next step is always 'who else can I demo for?'
- 07Only ask for money once the deal is in the red zone.
How to run it
- 1
Accept that you own the middle
Stop trying to learn 'sales'. Recognise that you can answer questions no rep at Salesforce or HubSpot can answer about your category, your customers' problems and your 10x feature.
Pro tip Early adopters find it magical to talk to the CEO of the CRM they're evaluating — they will never get Marc Benioff on a call.
Watch out Do not delegate the middle to an early rep who does not yet have product depth — they will need you or a sales engineer anyway.
- 2
Sell as a problem-solver, not a closer
Be the expert who explains the landscape honestly, including where you are weak. Answer every question over as many calls as it takes. Do the homework on their specific situation before you propose anything.
Pro tip Be willing to say 'we're not the right solution today — come back in six months'. The best reps do this and it builds the confidence that closes later.
Watch out Boiler Room tactics belong to commodity selling. Software solves real problems; if it doesn't, no tactic saves you.
- 3
Never end a call without a next step
At the end of every meeting, agree on the concrete next thing. If you can't think of one, ask 'who else in the organisation can I do a demo for?' A demo is non-threatening and always available as a next step.
Pro tip Log the next step in your CRM every single time — this is the single highest-leverage habit Lemkin names.
Watch out The default founder failure is ending the Zoom and waiting in the inbox for the prospect to move. It rarely comes on its own.
- 4
March the deal step by step to the red zone
Stack the steps: multi-stakeholder demos, a pilot if needed, help getting going, help seeing the value. Six steps in, five people at the account are using it and loving it.
Watch out People are lazy about running multiple demos. In a four-stakeholder sale, skipping them is how deals stall.
- 5
Ask for the close only in the red zone
Once value is visible and champions exist, the ask is natural: 'what can we do to get a contract signed so we can get going on February 1st?' You don't have to be good at closing — just in position.
Pro tip The framing 'what would it take to get you going next week?' is the whole close.
In the wild
Lemkin's model of a B2B sale: you're not hustling a used car. You're selling a Tesla Model 3 Performance — genuinely good, with real competition, which the buyer may not need this week. You honestly explain where it's not the best, answer every question across four calls, and go check on Google that there are no ordinary chargers near their house, only superchargers. Then you help them get into the car, with a discount at the end of the month.
→ The buyer is closed by having their problem solved, not by being manipulated — Lemkin's core claim that 99% of founders and reps mistake solving for selling.
A non-sales founder has a great conversation, ends the Zoom, and waits for the prospect to respond. Nothing happens. A rep in the same position would have booked the next meeting on the call.
→ Lemkin's number-one tactical fix: always leave with a next step and log it, and you don't need to be good at sales — just at moving the ball down the field.
Common mistakes
Believing you can't sell because you're not a 'salesperson'
You're an A+ middler by day one. You don't need to learn cold email or hardball closing — you need one motion: asking what it would take to get going.
Ending meetings with no agreed next action
Even mediocre professional reps are terrible at this, and it's why deals die. If nothing else is available, the ask is always 'who else can I demo for?'
Only reviewing the deals you won
All the tribal lore in sales is about wins. Teams should spend more time dissecting losses than victories — that's where the correctable errors live.
Is it for you?
Best for
Product-minded B2B founders and product leaders who need to close early customers and believe they cannot sell
Not ideal for
High-velocity transactional SMB motions where the sale is genuinely process and volume, not consultative problem-solving
From the transcript
“almost all founders are A+ middlers A+ middlers a plus middlers right”
“so bear in mind no matter how bad you think you are as a Founder you're pretty good at the middle part of sales”
“the best sales people never leave a meeting without a Next Step The Next Step does not have to be a check”
“so if you don't know what to ask at the end of the call ask who else can I have who else Lenny is there…”
“that's the number one tip is make sure yourself and log it in your CRM that you always have a next step”
From the episode
Building a world-class sales org
Jason Lemkin (SaaStr)