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Tristan de Montebello (CEO & co-founder of Ultraspeaking)13 October 2024

Why most public speaking advice is wrong—and how to finally overcome your speaking anxiety

6Frameworks
16Insights

Episode overview

Lenny Rachitsky speaks with Ultraspeaking co-creator Tristan de Montebello about treating speaking as a subconscious, flow-oriented skill rather than a collection of surface-level tactics. They demonstrate games including Conductor and Triple Step to build adaptability, confidence, and graceful recovery under pressure. Tristan also explains the Accordion Method for developing talks through spoken compression and expansion, and the Bow and Arrow technique for centering a presentation on the one idea the audience should remember.

Key ideas

  • Speaking improves through short, enjoyable spoken practice with immediate feedback—not merely by reading advice or memorizing frameworks.
  • Rather than apologizing, hedging, or exposing internal doubts, speakers should stay in character and finish their thoughts strongly.
  • Conductor deliberately changes intensity to expand a speaker's emotional range and reveal where they feel constrained.
  • Triple Step introduces unpredictable words so speakers practice maintaining direction and recovering gracefully amid turbulence.
  • Conviction prompts help speakers access stronger executive presence by completing sentence openings that demand commitment.
  • The Accordion Method develops a talk by speaking it in progressively shorter versions, then expanding it again around the essential ideas.
  • The Bow and Arrow technique begins with the single sentence the audience should remember and adds stories, evidence, or examples that give it impact.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Peak Performance4 steps

Conductor: Energy Leads, Emotion Follows, Words Fill the Gap

Shift your energy state on cue and let emotion and words follow automatically

Read →
Communication3 steps

End Strong (Land the Plane)

Anticipate that you'll get pulled out of flow at the end, and deliberately land your ending

Read →
Communication4 steps

Stay in Character (Don't Leak)

Never broadcast your internal insecurities — the audience can't see what you feel, so don't show them

Read →
Communication4 steps

The Accordion Method

Prepare a talk by speaking it down to its essence and back out, so it's internalized not memorized

Read →
Communication4 steps

The Bow and Arrow

Build a talk around the one thing you want remembered, then add weight so it lands

Read →
Peak Performance4 steps

Triple Step: The Tree in the Storm

Hold one clear direction while integrating distractions, so nothing can derail your speaking

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 7

  • Tristan de MontebelloMentionsTristan is the co-creator of ultra speaking

    “in 2017 Tristan became the fastest competitor to reach the finals of the world championship of public speaking”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
  • Tristan de MontebelloMentionsTristan is the co-creator of ultra speaking

    “today my guest is Tristan deont Bello Tristan is the co-creator of ultra speaking”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
  • Lenny RachitskyUsestoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter

    “so I took a an Abridged version of this speaking course that you teach called ultr speaking”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
  • Gay HendricksCoinedmentioned

    “called the big leap by gay Hendrick that I've recom mended so many times”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:45:00approx.
  • Ryan GoslingMentionsmentioned

    “I recently rewatched the nice guys with Ryan Gosling and Russell Crow”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:46:30approx.
  • Cillian MurphyMentionsmentioned

    “the peaky blinders an English show with h Killian Murphy I'm absolutely obsessed with that movie that show”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:46:30approx.
  • Russell CroweMentionsmentioned

    “I recently rewatched the nice guys with Ryan Gosling and Russell Crow”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:46:30approx.

Resources · 21

  • World Championship of Public SpeakingMentionsevent · Toastmasters International

    “in 2017 Tristan became the fastest competitor to reach the finals of the world championship of public speaking”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
  • UltraspeakingCoinedcourse · Tristan de Montebello and Michael Gendler

    “Tristan is the co-creator of ultra speaking which is the best public speaking Workshop I have ever come across”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
  • UltraspeakingRecommendscourse · Tristan de Montebello and Michael Gendler

    “it immediately made me feel more comfor public speaking which I never felt doing any other course”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
  • EppoRecommendssoftware · Eppo

    “EPO is a Next Generation AB testing and feature management platform built by alums of Airbnb and snowflake”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
  • Command AIRecommendstool

    “command AI is an AI power toolkit for support product growth and marketing teams that embeds in your company's product”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
  • Speak Before You ThinkCoinedproduct · Ultraspeaking

    “we created speak before you think a game for people who think too much”

    ▶ Watch at ~33:00approx.
  • ConductorCoinedsoftware · Orkes

    “the conductor one is so beautiful”

    ▶ Watch at ~47:00approx.
  • ConductorRecommendssoftware · Orkes

    “this is you can access this for free on ultr speaking”

    ▶ Watch at ~48:30approx.
  • Triple StepCoinedcourse · Ultraspeaking

    “this next game is called triple step”

    ▶ Watch at ~51:00approx.
  • Rapid Fire AnalogiesRecommendscourse · Ultraspeaking

    “a game called rapid fire analogies are games that are really really nice to use as a way to warm your brain up”

    ▶ Watch at ~55:30approx.
  • Triple StepRecommendscourse · Ultraspeaking

    “use it before a podcast you could use it before a job interview before a meeting”

    ▶ Watch at ~55:30approx.
  • Brave SearchRecommendswebsite · Brave Software

    “Brave search is the private independent search engine that doesn't bias or sensor results”

    ▶ Watch at ~58:30approx.link ↗
  • Accordion Method courseCoinedcourse · Ultraspeaking

    “we have a full self-paced course on ultr speaking on the accordion”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:37:00approx.
  • Accordion Method courseRecommendscourse · Ultraspeaking

    “if you wanted to go grab it there you can grab it there”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:37:30approx.
  • The Big LeapRecommendsbook · Gay Hendricks

    “called the big leap by gay Hendrick that I've recom mended so many times”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:45:00approx.
  • Peaky BlindersRecommendstv show · Steven Knight

    “my favorite TV show one of my favorite TV shows of all time is the peaky blinders”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:46:00approx.
  • The Nice GuysRecommendsfilm · Shane Black

    “I recently rewatched the nice guys with Ryan Gosling and Russell Crow and I think it's just brilliant comedy”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:46:30approx.
  • Ember MugRecommendsproduct · Ember Technologies

    “this is called an ember mug and this keeps whatever you have in it warm and it's extraordinary”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:47:00approx.
  • Toastmasters InternationalMentionscourse

    “who was our our district director at Toast Masters”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:53:00approx.
  • UltraspeakingRecommendscourse · Tristan de Montebello and Michael Gendler

    “you can also just go to Ultras speake docomo the games for free”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:54:30approx.
  • Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky

    “you can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at Lenny podcast.com”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:56:00approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 3

Myth Buster12:00

Speaking Is a Subconscious Flow, Not a Conscious Process

The insight that reshaped Tristan's whole approach was realizing speaking is a subconscious, flow-oriented process rather than a conscious one. When he speaks best, speaking is the last thing on his mind — he's fully tuned into what he's trying to convey. The goal becomes getting into a flow state and staying there all the way through the finish line, which changes what kind of practice actually helps.

  • Speaking is a subconscious, flow-oriented process, not a conscious one
  • When speaking best, the mechanics of speaking are the last thing you think about
  • The goal is to enter flow and stay in it through to the finish line
  • This reframe changes which exercises and habits are worth practicing

“the day I understood that speaking was a subconscious flow oriented process and not a conscious process completely changed the way I approached it”

Tristan de Montebello · 12:00

“when I speak best I'm actually not thinking about speaking it's the last thing I think about is the speaking part”

Tristan de Montebello · 12:30
#public-speaking#flow#mindset#subconscious
Myth Buster25:30

Almost Everyone Speaking Up Is Nervous — You Just Can't Tell

Tristan wants people to walk around realizing that most of the confident-looking speakers around them are actually nervous. Nervousness is essentially invisible unless it's through the roof, which means your own visible nerves are far lower than they feel. This reframe undercuts the belief that your anxiety is on display, and it's why staying in character reliably earns the reaction a confident person gets.

  • Most people speaking up in meetings feel nervous but it doesn't show
  • Nervousness is invisible to others unless it's extreme
  • People look confident by default — your nerves feel bigger than they read
  • Staying in character earns you the reaction a confident person would get

“most people speaking up in meetings are feeling a level of nervousness but you can't tell unless it's through the roof”

Tristan de Montebello · 26:00
#public-speaking#anxiety#confidence#reframe
Myth Buster1:20:00

Practicing These Skills Won't Turn You Into a Bullshitter

Many people resist speaking freely because they fear becoming the polished bullshitter with nothing to back it up — an 'immune response' that fires the moment they try to speak with more conviction. Tristan's counter: if that fear even occurs to you, you have a finely tuned detector for bullshit and can't become one. The aim is to match the bullshitter's level of communication while actually having the ideas and craft to justify it.

  • The fear of 'becoming a bullshitter' fires like an immune response against speaking freely
  • If that worry pops up, you have the very detector that prevents you from being one
  • Goal: match a great communicator's delivery but back it with real ideas and craft
  • If you feel a big reaction to this, that voice is atrophied and worth strengthening

“I want to match that bullshitter level of communication except I'm G to have the ideas to back it up”

Tristan de Montebello · 1:22:00
#public-speaking#authenticity#conviction#mindset

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take09:00

If You're Not Enjoying Speaking, You're Doing It Wrong

Tristan treats enjoyment as a diagnostic signal: since speaking is something humans are evolved to do, it should feel rewarding, so the moment it stops being enjoyable it's a sign you're overthinking. The same barometer applies to practice — if your practice isn't enjoyable, you'll quit two weeks in like a bad fitness journey. Feeling like yourself, the way you do with close friends or family, is the target state.

  • Enjoyment is a barometer: doing it right usually feels good, doing it wrong feels bad
  • We all have environments (family, best friends) where communication feels effortless
  • Business pressure makes people try to control words before they leave their mouth
  • If it doesn't feel good, you're probably overthinking and need to relax
  • Practice itself must be enjoyable or you won't stick with it

“I see in enjoyment as a barometer like if I'm doing things right I'm probably enjoying myself if I'm doing things wrong”

Tristan de Montebello · 09:00
#public-speaking#mindset#practice#enjoyment
Hot Take43:00

Pros Are Just Amateurs Who Recover Gracefully From Mistakes

Tristan invokes a Kevin Kelly line — pros are amateurs who've learned to recover gracefully from their mistakes — as the whole point of practicing under deliberate 'turbulence.' The games intentionally create pressure so you learn to navigate mistakes rather than avoid them. If you trust you can recover from anything, you'll have confidence in any speaking scenario, especially the spontaneous ones you can't prepare for.

  • Kevin Kelly: pros are amateurs who recover gracefully from mistakes
  • The games deliberately create 'turbulence' to practice recovery, like a flight simulator
  • Confidence comes from knowing you can recover from any mistake
  • Most real speaking situations are spontaneous and can't be prepared for

“he says Pros are just amateurs who've learned to recover gracefully from their mistakes”

Tristan de Montebello · 43:30

“if you know that you can recover from any mistake gracefully then you're going to have confidence in any speaking scenario”

Tristan de Montebello · 43:30
#public-speaking#resilience#confidence#mistakes

Explainer· 3

Explainer05:30

Why Speaking Is a Meta-Skill That Upgrades Your Whole Life

Tristan argues the biggest misconception is underestimating how transformative speaking can be, because it's a meta-skill rather than a specialized one. Like fitness, getting better at speaking ripples out into how you feel at work, with friends, with strangers, and even in your family. He frames humans as evolved to speak, so the work is less about adding skills and more about debugging bad habits accumulated over a lifetime.

  • Speaking is a meta-skill: the better you get, the better your whole life gets
  • Analogy to fitness — the visible gains are only a sliver of the real impact
  • Breakthroughs in speaking change how you feel at work, with friends, and with family
  • We're evolved to speak — a baby learns it with no formal education
  • Over life we accumulate 'bugs in the software'; the fix is debugging, not rebuilding

“speaking is not a specialized skill it's a meta skill that means that the better you get at speaking the better your life gets”

Tristan de Montebello · 06:00

“we all have this incredible Hardware the thing is over the course of our life because of all these little situations that happen we start…”

Tristan de Montebello · 08:00
#public-speaking#confidence#mindset#self-improvement
Explainer17:30

End Strong: Why You Have to Land the Plane

People tend to end weak — trailing off or blurting their own doubts right at the finish. Tristan cites fMRI studies of freestyle rappers whose brains show flow lighting up until the very end, when they get pulled out of it, the same instinct as slowing down just before a finish line. Because of the peak-end rule, a bad landing overwrites an otherwise great answer, like a smooth flight ruined by a bouncing landing.

  • Most people end weak: they trail off or voice last-second doubts
  • fMRI on freestyle rappers shows flow that collapses right at the end
  • The plane analogy: a bumpy landing is what people remember, not the smooth flight
  • Anticipate that self-awareness returns at the end and consciously 'land the plane'

“they put freestyle rappers in an fmri and what they found out is freestyle rappers have to enter uh a deep Flow State”

Tristan de Montebello · 18:00

“you're not going to remember the smooth flight you're going to remember the ending”

Tristan de Montebello · 19:30
#public-speaking#endings#flow#neuroscience
Explainer21:00

Stop Leaking Your Insecurities — Nobody Can See Them

When a word comes out weird, most people 'leak' — laughing nervously or saying 'I'm not making sense right now' — which forces the audience to view everything through a lens of doubt. Tristan's pilot analogy: a captain announcing an unexplained blinking light turns every tiny bump into a crisis. The fix is simple: don't share your insecurities, stay in character from start to past the ending, and cue yourself to 'stay in it' the worse it feels.

  • People self-sabotage by 'leaking' doubts the audience never noticed
  • Pilot analogy: announcing an unexplained problem makes every small bump feel catastrophic
  • Internally it feels like everyone can see your nerves, but they can't
  • Solution: put your best foot forward and stay in character the whole time
  • Self-cue: 'stay in it' — and the worse it gets, the more you repeat it

“nobody can tell people cannot see what you feel even though it feels that way when you feel really really strongly but people can't see…”

Tristan de Montebello · 22:00

“the Q I use for myself is stay in it and the worse it gets the more I'll I'll say just stay in it”

Tristan de Montebello · 25:00
#public-speaking#confidence#self-sabotage#composure

Story· 1

Story1:49:00

Throwing Out His Speech and Rebuilding It in Five Days

Six days before the semifinals of the World Championship of Public Speaking, Tristan finally had a speech he wept writing and deeply believed in. Testing it in front of 50 people, he filmed it and watched the footage: at the emotional peak, one person pulled out the event agenda, another their phone, another dug through a purse — and he realized nobody cared. He threw it away, rebuilt a completely new speech from the ground up in five days, gave it to a single audience member who cried and hugged him, then won the semifinals with it.

  • Six days out, he had a speech he'd wept writing and deeply believed in
  • He filmed every one of 100+ speeches over seven months for feedback
  • Watching the footage, the audience disengaged exactly at the emotional peak
  • He scrapped it and rebuilt a completely new speech in five days
  • Tested on one person who teared up; then won the semifinals with it

“oh this speech nobody cares about this this is not a good speech this is terrible”

Tristan de Montebello · 1:51:30

“if I was able to do to build a speech in five days that could get me a win at the semi-finals of the World…”

Tristan de Montebello · 1:53:30
#story#public-speaking#world-championship#feedback

Tool· 1

Tool1:45:00

Book: The Big Leap and the Upper-Limit Problem

In the lightning round, Tristan recommends The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks, given to him by his first coach. Its core idea is that we self-sabotage when we experience too much success or happiness, a pattern hardwired in childhood — like the tall-poppy dynamic where shining too much in a family gets discouraged. The book reframes that internal ceiling into an upward-facing spiral with no upper limit.

  • The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks, recommended many times
  • Core idea: we self-sabotage when we hit too much success or happiness
  • Tall-poppy dynamic: shining too much in a family gets internalized as a ceiling
  • Reframes the ceiling into an 'upward-facing spiral with no upper limit'

“it's based on this idea that we tend to self-sabotage ourselves when we experience too much success or too much happiness”

Tristan de Montebello · 1:45:30

“he calls it an upward-facing spiral with no upper limit”

Tristan de Montebello · 1:46:00
#books#self-sabotage#psychology#recommendation

Takeaway· 6

Takeaway13:00

Fix the Root Cause, Not the Symptom (Filler Words, Monotony)

Rather than attacking surface symptoms like filler words, Tristan hunts the root cause underneath them. Filler words and racing speech come from struggling to slow down or pause when your mind is racing under pressure; solve that and the symptoms disappear on their own. Monotony works the same way — it comes from feeling boxed in and not trusting yourself to let emotion out.

  • Don't count filler words — find the root cause that produces them
  • Filler words and racing come from an inability to comfortably slow down or pause
  • Solve the root cause and the symptoms take care of themselves
  • Monotony stems from feeling boxed in and lacking trust that letting go will work

“instead of focusing on the symptoms of speaking I started to try and figure out well what are the root causes that create these symptoms…”

Tristan de Montebello · 13:00

“the root cause of having lots of filler words or racing in your speaking is that you probably struggle to feel comfortable slowing down”

Tristan de Montebello · 13:30
#public-speaking#filler-words#practice#root-cause
Takeaway16:00

Look Up (Not Down) to Instantly Appear More Confident

A simple physical tweak: when gathering your thoughts, most people look down, which reads as uncertain — and three times worse on Zoom, where it looks like you're checking your phone. Looking up instead makes you appear thoughtful and confident by default, so you're far less likely to get interrupted. Tristan recommends writing 'think up' on a Post-it on your computer until it becomes automatic.

  • Looking down while thinking reads as uncertain — 3x worse on Zoom
  • Looking up (any direction) makes you look thoughtful and confident by default
  • Appearing confident makes you less likely to get interrupted mid-pause
  • Write 'think up' on a Post-it until the habit sticks

“as long as you're looking up you actually look thoughtful by default”

Tristan de Montebello · 17:00

“I recommend writing think up on a poit and putting it on your computer so that it's there for you”

Tristan de Montebello · 17:00
#public-speaking#body-language#confidence#zoom
Takeaway31:00

You Can't Get Better at Speaking Without Speaking

Like learning to cook by spending time in the kitchen rather than reading cookbooks, speaking only improves through actually speaking — yet most people avoid it because it's scary and practice environments are scarce. The engine behind Ultraspeaking's games is short deliberate practice: brief reps followed by feedback followed by another rep. The scary part is only the outside; once you start, the reward and enjoyment kick in quickly.

  • You can't get better at speaking by reading articles or watching videos
  • Cooking analogy: intuition is built in the kitchen, not from 100 cookbooks
  • The mechanism is short reps → feedback → another rep
  • Only the outside is scary; starting brings reward and momentum fast

“what all of the ultr speaking games have in common is that it's short deliberate practice like short reps followed by feedback followed by another…”

Tristan de Montebello · 31:00

“the magic of games is short reps immediate feedback practice feedback practice feedback”

Tristan de Montebello · 33:00
#public-speaking#deliberate-practice#feedback#learning
Takeaway47:00

Energy Leads, Emotions Follow, and Words Fill the Gap

Tristan's favorite mechanism for spontaneous speaking: change your energy first and the content follows automatically. Tapping into a given energy creates an emotion, and once you're in that emotion the words, stories, and examples arrive as a natural consequence. If you want more conviction, raise your energy into that state and the right content fits itself into it.

  • Sequence: energy leads → emotions follow → words fill the gap
  • Tapping an energy creates emotion; the words come as a natural consequence
  • Want more conviction? Get into the state and content self-assembles around it
  • Different energy levels unlock different thoughts, stories, and examples

“when you tap into a certain energy that creates emotion and if you tap into that emotion the words come as a natural consequence”

Tristan de Montebello · 47:30

“so it's energy leads emotions follow and words fill in the Gap”

Tristan de Montebello · 47:30
#public-speaking#flow#emotion#spontaneity
Takeaway1:17:30

Think Out Loud Instead of Slipping Into a 'Public Speaking Voice'

People often enter a stiff 'professional version' of themselves the moment a speech starts, when speaking conversationally is more freeing, powerful, and effective. Tristan's cue is to stop thinking about the audience and just think out loud. He ties it to a Naval Ravikant idea that you should discover the words you're saying at the same moment your audience does — real connections in your mind, with words as the consequence.

  • People snap into a stiff 'public speaking voice' the moment a speech starts
  • Speaking conversationally is more freeing, powerful, and effective
  • Cue: don't think about the audience, just think out loud
  • Most people have a high skill set but a low mindset — match the mindset up
  • Naval Ravikant: discover your words at the same time your audience does

“the cue I often give people is don't think about us just think out loud”

Tristan de Montebello · 1:18:00

“one should discover the words they are saying at the same time their audiences”

Tristan de Montebello · 1:19:00
#public-speaking#authenticity#mindset#conversational
Takeaway1:47:30

'These Are the Good Old Days' — His Favorite Motto

Tristan's most-shared life motto counters a species-wide tendency to be too future-focused and always chasing the next thing. He reminds himself and others that the present will one day be looked back on as the good old days — this podcast, this moment, will never feel this young again. The practice is simply to enjoy the present because it's fleeting even when it feels eternal.

  • We're too future-focused, always chasing the next thing
  • Motto: 'these are the good old days'
  • The present will never feel this young again — you'll look back and know it
  • Especially resonant with young kids, who won't be little for long

“the motto I share with my friends and my business partners and my family the most I think is these are the good old days”

Tristan de Montebello · 1:47:30
#mindset#presence#motto#gratitude