On finding an early wedge, Perkins says one of the most important things Canva did was not worry about competitors at all and instead look for a gap in the market it could uniquely fill. With their first company they solved yearbook design for coordinators with no design experience, learning pain points from every customer. Her rule: solve a real, paid-for problem, and better to solve a small group's problem well than a large group's poorly.

Canva didn't worry about competitors, it looked for an unfilled gap
First company solved yearbook design by talking to every customer
A school asking to design newsletters signaled the broader opportunity
Take a problem-centered approach, not a solution looking for a problem
Better to solve a small group's problem well than a large group's poorly

“we didn't really worry about competitors at all we actually just saw where is there a gap in the market that we can uniquely fill”
Melanie Perkins · 50:30

“it's better to solve a small number of people's problem really well than trying to solve a large number of people's problem not very well…”
Melanie Perkins · 52:00

#strategy#product-market-fit#founders#canva

Hot Take52:30

Don't Add AI Just Because Investors Like It

Perkins' philosophy on AI is to integrate it only where it genuinely helps customers get work done, then listen to the community and refine. She pushes back on the idea that AI being 'all the rage' with investors means it belongs front and center. For Canva, reducing friction between an idea and a design made AI a natural fit, so much so that they were trying to do AI before it was a thing, visible even in their 2012 deck.

Integrate AI only where it genuinely helps customers achieve goals
AI being popular with investors is not a reason to put it front and center
Then listen to the community and refine from there
Canva was trying to do AI before AI was a thing, back to the 2012 deck

“Just because AI is all the rage and investors really like AI doesn't necessarily mean it should be front and center”
Melanie Perkins · 53:00

“We were trying to do AI before AI was actually a thing”
Melanie Perkins · 53:30

#ai#product#strategy#canva

Hot Take1:02:00

'Everything Good Was Once Imagined'

Perkins shares two mottos she keeps coming back to. One: happiness is when what you think, say, and do are in harmony. The other, which she says Canva will be repeating a lot, is that everything good was once imagined, because if you don't imagine something you can't will it into existence, and everything great we experience in life was first imagined.

Motto: happiness is when what you think, say, and do are in harmony
She's obsessed with the idea that everything is led by imagination
Imagination is the first step of the creative process
Everything great we experience in life was first imagined

“happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony”
Melanie Perkins · 1:02:30

“everything great that we experience in life was first imagined.”
Melanie Perkins · 1:02:30

#philosophy#mindset#quotes#canva

Explainer· 1

Explainer38:00

Closing the Loop: A Million Community Requests a Year

Canva runs a formal process to source product ideas from its community, receiving more than a million requests a year that a dedicated team tallies and routes to product teams. This year they've 'closed' more than 200 loops, from small features like gradient text to big products like Sheets. A notable case: teachers requested AI tools Canva had withheld from classrooms, so Canva added safety controls and unlocked them.

More than a million community requests come in each year
A dedicated team tallies, breaks down, and routes requests to product teams
More than 200 loops closed this year, from gradient text to the Sheets product
Each shipped request is assumed to be wanted by far more people who never filed one
Teachers' requests led Canva to unlock AI tools with added safety controls

“we get more than a million requests from our community every year”
Melanie Perkins · 38:00

“this year we've closed more than 200 loops”
Melanie Perkins · 38:30

#product#community#feedback#canva

Story· 5

Story23:30

The 2-Year Rewrite Where a Product Company Couldn't Ship Product

Canva undertook a front-end rewrite they expected to take six months so they could support cross-platform, right-to-left languages, and more than five simultaneous editors. It ended up taking two years, during which the product company shipped no new product. Perkins describes it as a dark tunnel with no visible end, but essential work that later enabled 2,500 engineers to build things that would otherwise have been infeasible.

The rewrite was estimated at six months and took two years
It was critical for cross-platform, right-to-left languages, and simultaneous collaboration
The old codebase limited them to five people working in the editor at once
Shipping and customer feedback is a core team motivation, so two years without it felt like a dark tunnel
The work later enabled 2,500 engineers to deliver previously infeasible features

“we thought it was going to take six months and then it took two years”
Melanie Perkins · 23:30

“A product company not shipping product [laughter] is not really a recipe for fun”
Melanie Perkins · 25:00

#engineering#product#scaling#canva

Story25:30

The Rubber-Duck Game Board That Got the Team Through the Rewrite

To keep morale up through the grueling two-year rewrite, Perkins turned progress into a game. Each component was represented by a rubber-duck bath toy on a board with stages, including an emergency lane and a 'home and hosed' finish. Weekly standups had everyone report where their bath toy was, making a distressing period partly fun and bonding.

Components were represented as rubber-duck bath toys on a physical board
The board had stages including an emergency lane and a 'home and hosed' end
Weekly standups tracked where each toy was
The gamification made a distressing period partly fun and team-bonding while investors worried

“I bought these little like rubber ducky sort of bath toys”
Melanie Perkins · 25:30

“It was bonding let's say.”
Melanie Perkins · 26:00

#team#morale#management#canva

Story26:30

How 100+ Investor Rejections Made the Pitch Deck Stronger

Perkins was rejected by over 100 investors when raising Canva's first round. Rather than take it personally, she treated each objection as feedback and added a new slide to answer it, so 'market's not big enough' and 'you're the same as another company' each got pre-answered. The rejection-driven refinement produced a 2012 pitch deck she says still captures what Canva is doing today.

Over 100 investors said no to the first raise
Each objection became a new slide that pre-answered future skeptics
Early decks were solution-first; feedback pushed them to lead with the problem
The core vision stayed consistent even as the articulation changed greatly
The refined 2012 pitch deck still holds up today

“It was really clear in my mind that it was the future and I thought the investors were wrong, frankly.”
Melanie Perkins · 27:00

“their feedback made us stronger and made our pitch deck stronger”
Melanie Perkins · 27:30

#fundraising#pitch#resilience#canva

Story20:00

Smashing Greek Plates and Releasing Doves to Celebrate Big Goals

Canva couples its crazy big goals with deliberately fun celebrations tied to a moment in time. Over the years these have included smashing Greek plates, releasing doves, and holding a tomatina festival. Perkins argues that pausing to celebrate each milestone matters because always plodding toward the top of the mountain without patting yourself on the back would feel arduous.

Big goals are coupled with fun celebrations at a fixed moment in time
Celebrations have included smashing Greek plates, releasing doves, and a tomatina festival
You celebrate what you want everyone to focus on
Taking the moment keeps a long mission from feeling arduous

“we have smashed Greek plates and released doves and had a little automatina festival”
Melanie Perkins · 20:30

#culture#team#goals#canva

Story40:30

Giving 30% of Canva Away: The GiveDirectly Bet

Perkins and co-founder Cliff pledged roughly 30% of Canva, their ownership stake, to do the most good they can. Through the Canva Foundation they've donated $50 million to GiveDirectly, which gives cash directly to people in extreme poverty in Malawi, and announced another $100 million over four years. Combined with free education and nonprofit products, Canva is giving away about $1.5 billion of product a year. For Perkins, getting rich is a means to an end.

Perkins and Cliff pledged ~30% of Canva to do the most good
$50 million donated via the Canva Foundation to GiveDirectly in Malawi
Another $100 million announced over the next four years
Combined with free education and nonprofit products, ~$1.5 billion of product given away a year
Canva also took the 1% pledge in its early days

“we've um donated $50 million to give directly where they give money directly to people in Malawi who are in extreme poverty”
Melanie Perkins · 41:30

“getting really rich is not a goal unto itself whatsoever. It's a means to an end.”
Melanie Perkins · 44:00

#philanthropy#mission#values#canva

Q&A· 1

Q&A29:30

Perkins' Fundraising Advice: Control What You Can, Find Your Tribe

Asked what she tells founders struggling to raise, Perkins says to convert rejection into things you can control, your pitch deck and how many people you talk to, rather than taking it personally. Some investors will never get it; she once pitched someone with the Lean Startup book behind them who was never going to like Canva. The goal is to find the people who do connect with what you're building.

Turn rejection into things you can control: the deck and the number of people you pitch
Don't take rejection personally; ask how you can help someone understand it
Some investors will never get it, and that's okay
Find your tribe of people who like what you're trying to do

“I can control my pitch deck. I can control the number of people I'm speaking to and I just spoke to literally everyone.”
Melanie Perkins · 30:00

“there's some people that are just going to never like you and that's okay”
Melanie Perkins · 30:30

#fundraising#advice#founders#canva

Tool· 3

Tool39:30

usertesting.com and the Power of 10 Random People

Perkins has personally run hundreds if not thousands of user tests, watching for hesitations and confusion when people use the product. She's struck by how ten random people from the internet can give feedback representative of a huge user base. Her recommended tool for this is usertesting.com, and she notes people are more frank testing alone with just their camera.

Perkins has personally run hundreds to thousands of user tests
Watch for where people hesitate or don't understand a button
Ten random people online can give feedback representative of many users
Recommended tool: usertesting.com
People are more frank when testing alone with only their camera

“It's amazing to me how you can find 10 random people on the internet and they can give such astute feedback”
Melanie Perkins · 39:30

“we use a lot of user testing.com. I find that super super valuable.”
Melanie Perkins · 40:30

#product#user-testing#tools#canva

Tool53:30

The 'AI Walk': Talking Out Your Thoughts to Get Perspective

Perkins' favorite personal AI use is an 'AI walk': she puts in her earpods, walks, and says everything on her mind, then uses AI to filter thoughts and figure out what needs action. It helps her get out of the weeds and think from a more macro perspective instead of reacting to Slack and email. For capture she uses Apple Notes or dictates straight into Canva Docs and summarizes the brain dump.

AI is the first place she goes to explore a new idea
The 'AI walk': speak everything on your mind while walking, then filter with AI
It helps escape the weeds and think from a macro vantage point
She captures via Apple Notes or dictating into Canva Docs, then summarizes

“another really fun thing I do um is an AI walk and it's when I just put my um ear pods in and then I…”
Melanie Perkins · 54:30

#ai#productivity#habits#canva

Tool1:00:00

Melanie Perkins' Book Recommendations

In the lightning round, Perkins names the two books she recommends most: The Power of Moments and Designing the Obvious, which she read early on and found very insightful.

The Power of Moments
Designing the Obvious, read early on and found very insightful

“The Power of Moments and um one of the books early on I read was Designing the Obvious, which I found very insightful”
Melanie Perkins · 1:00:30

#books#recommendations#canva

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway31:00

Don't Borrow Other Companies' Bricks

Perkins repeatedly saw the temptation to copy how bigger companies do things, and often it didn't work for Canva. She likens it to taking bricks from someone else's house and sticking them in yours, where they won't match. Her lesson is to build what's authentic to your own company and reinvent your systems for each new stage of scale rather than buying something off the shelf.

Copying a bigger company's playbook often didn't work for Canva
Borrowed practices are like mismatched bricks from another house
Confidence in doing things your own way is a constant work in progress
Systems must be reimagined for the next layer of scale, not bought off the shelf

“it's kind of like building a house that you want every brick in the house to match.”
Melanie Perkins · 31:30

“And if you go and try and take some bricks from someone else's house and stick it in your house, it's probably going to not…”
Melanie Perkins · 31:30

#leadership#culture#scaling#canva

Takeaway36:00

No Email or Slack on Her Phone: How Perkins Protects Focus

After years of working seven days a week round the clock, Perkins realized that pace isn't good for anyone's health. She now keeps no email or Slack on her phone, so closing her laptop means genuinely tuning out; a real issue comes as an emergency call. Her rule is to be all in when working and all out when not, because stepping away gives perspective and prevents working hard on the wrong thing.

Early on she worked seven days a week round the clock
She keeps no email or Slack on her phone
A real issue reaches her via an emergency call or page
Rule: all in when working, all out when not
Stepping away prevents working hard on the wrong thing

“I don't have email or Slack on my phone and so when I shut my laptop, I actually tune out”
Melanie Perkins · 37:00

“when I'm working, I'm all in. And then when I'm not working, I'm all out.”
Melanie Perkins · 37:30

#habits#productivity#wellbeing#canva

Frameworks in this episode

All-In / All-Out Delineation

Chaos to Clarity

Closing the Loop with Community

Column B Thinking

Crazy Big Goals with a Ladder to the Moon

Goal-Driven Company Structure

Problem-Centered Wedge

Rejection-as-Refinement Pitching

Insights & moments

◆Hot Take· 3

Ignore Competitors, Find the Gap: Canva's Problem-Centered Wedge