LLenny's Podcast
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Jessica Livingston (co-founder of Y Combinator, author, podc27 June 2024

The social radar: Y Combinator’s secret weapon

4Frameworks
14Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster29:00

Don't Get Fooled by Charisma

Jessica pushes back on charisma as a signal of a good founder. Plenty of charismatic people are full of baloney and doing a startup because it's cool, so there has to be substance behind the charm. Some of the best founders are actually uncharismatic but know their user and their problem deeply.

  • Charisma without substance is a trap that fools investors.
  • Some uncharismatic people are excellent founders when they care about the user and the problem.
  • Charisma does help because founders must sell to recruits, investors, and users.

I hate using the word charisma because I wouldn't there are a lot of charismatic people who are are full of baloney

Jessica Livingston · 29:00
#charisma#founders#evaluation#myths

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take34:30

You Have to Burn the Boat

Jessica says starting a startup on the side is fine at first, but at some point founders must commit and quit their jobs. YC found that founders still drawing a paycheck and health insurance didn't quit when things got hard, and often that co-founder left the company. You need the desperation of having no fallback.

  • Building on the side is a fine way to get going before raising money.
  • Founders who kept their jobs tended to bail when the going got tough.
  • That healthy desperation ('this has to succeed, it's my job') is a needed forcing function.

But at some point you have to commit. You have to burn the boat

Jessica Livingston · 35:00

like you sort of need that desperation

Jessica Livingston · 35:30
#commitment#founders#startups#risk

Explainer· 2

Explainer16:30

Defensiveness Is Always a Bad Sign in a Founder

The clearest interview red flag for Jessica was a founder who got defensive when her co-founders probed their idea. The best founders instead treated tough questions like a tennis match and stayed open-minded, because startups constantly get questioned and the first idea is rarely right.

  • Defensiveness signals a founder who can't educate skeptics or adjust their idea.
  • She cites PayPal's pivot from Palm Pilot money transfer to the web as why open-mindedness matters.
  • The best founders keep listening and having spirited debates rather than closing up.

if a founder would get defensive, that was always a bad sign. Always a bad sign.

Jessica Livingston · 16:30

but the best founders are always listening and having spirited debates about things

Jessica Livingston · 20:30
#founders#red-flags#evaluation#open-mindedness
Explainer46:30

Why 10 Minutes Is All YC Needs

Jessica explains that a lot of the judgment comes from reading the application first, so the 10-minute interview is usually enough. When YC tried longer 20-minute interviews, they'd already know by the 10-minute mark and spend the rest twiddling their thumbs, so short interviews let them see more founders.

  • Much of the assessment happens while reading the application beforehand.
  • In 20-minute interviews they usually knew the answer within 10 minutes.
  • Short interviews let YC evaluate far more teams.

But then the 10 minutes is kind of as long as you need in most cases cuz we found when they were longer like 20…

Jessica Livingston · 47:00
#y-combinator#interviews#process#evaluation

Story· 7

Story03:30

Why Jessica Gets Erased From the YC Story

Jessica reflects on being a Y Combinator co-founder who is routinely left out of news articles and even nudged off Wikipedia. She argues part of it is a convenient narrative: some people prefer to believe YC is run by and invests only in white men, and a female founder making funding decisions undermines that story.

  • People repeatedly try to remove her Wikipedia entry despite her being a YC co-founder and best-selling author.
  • She says the external view doesn't matter to her because YC alumni, colleagues, and the Silicon Valley community know what she did.
  • She believes some erase her because a woman choosing who to fund contradicts the 'run by white men' narrative about YC.

gosh, I'm a founder of Y Combinator, author of a best-selling book on startups. You know, what does a girl have to do?

Jessica Livingston · 03:30
#y-combinator#founders#recognition#women-in-tech
Story21:00

The Airbnb Cereal Boxes That Won the Interview

In the strict winter '09 batch after the market crash, YC hated Airbnb's idea but was won over by the founders' energy. Joe pulled out the Obama O's and Captain McCain's cereal boxes they'd hand-assembled, and Jessica knew these founders would do whatever it took to succeed.

  • YC was only funding scrappy 'cockroach' founders who could live on very little money.
  • They disliked the air-bed idea itself but bet on the founders.
  • The glue-gunned off-brand cereal boxes convinced Jessica of the founders' relentless hustle.

we hated their idea and Paul tried to get Brian and Joe and Nate to change it

Jessica Livingston · 22:00

oh my god these guys are really like going to great lengths for this

Jessica Livingston · 22:30
#airbnb#y-combinator#hustle#founders
Story27:00

Backing the Goat Founders Before They Found Goat

Jessica pushed the group to fund Eddie and Darshan when they applied with a group-dinner idea, not the sneaker marketplace. She loved the founders' passion and their stories of running a hard cream-puff company earlier, and bet they were hustlers who'd make it work. The dinner idea failed but they pivoted into Goat.

  • This was one of the rare times she persuaded the group to fund someone the others were lukewarm on.
  • She read them as scrappy hustlers based on their earlier company's hard-won stories.
  • Their original idea failed but they pivoted into Goat, which is doing very well.

these are hustlers these guys are scrappy they're going to make this succeed

Jessica Livingston · 27:30
#goat#founders#pivot#hustle
Story45:30

The Bitcoin Thief Her Radar Missed

Asked if she'd ever been tricked, Jessica shares the one example she's comfortable naming: Ilya Lichtenstein of MixRank, who was later convicted of stealing billions of dollars in Bitcoin from a crypto wallet. She never sensed anything bad about him, a reminder that even a great social radar misses some people.

  • Ilya Lichtenstein of MixRank was convicted of a massive Bitcoin theft.
  • She recalls no bad feeling about him at the time.
  • She admits she gets tricked in small ways all the time given 10-minute interviews.

Um Ilya Lichtenstein of MixRank. Do you know the guy that like stole billions of dollars in Bitcoin from a crypto wallet?

Jessica Livingston · 46:00
#social-radar#misjudgment#y-combinator#crypto
Story52:00

Beating Paul Graham on the Eyes Quiz

Paul Graham emailed Jessica late one night bragging he scored 25/36 on the 'Reading the Mind in the Eyes' quiz, where you judge emotions from just a person's eyes. Determined to beat him, she got up, took it, and scored a perfect 36/36. After Paul tweeted it, about ten people at a YC London event came up asking her secret.

  • The quiz shows only the eyes and asks you to identify subtle emotions like irritated versus angry.
  • Jessica scored a perfect 36/36; the highest Lenny's friends managed was 31.
  • Her trick is asking 'what are they trying to communicate to me?' when looking into the eyes.

And when I got 36 out of 36, I was like, "Yes!"

Jessica Livingston · 53:30
#social-radar#empathy#quiz#reading-people
Story1:04:30

Setting the Record Straight on Parker Conrad

The podcast episode that sticks with Jessica most is Parker Conrad's, where they revisited how the press annihilated him over Zenefits. She learned it involved a smear campaign paid for by someone still at the company, legal threats, and planted stories, and she was glad to be a conduit to set the record straight even though no reporter ever recanted.

  • There was a smear campaign paid for by someone still at Zenefits.
  • Legal threats tried to force a California non-compete so he couldn't start another company.
  • No reporter ever corrected the record; Parker moved on to Rippling but Jessica still cares about the injustice.

if you didn't follow uh that story years ago, the press annihilated him

Jessica Livingston · 1:04:30
#parker-conrad#zenefits#press#podcasting
Story1:22:00

How Not Knowing How to Invest Created YC

None of the YC founders had angel investing experience, so they funded a batch of startups at once during the summer just to learn how to invest. The plan was to switch to normal asynchronous investing afterward, but they realized the batch model was magical, and that inexperience became YC's defining structure.

  • The summer founders program was a way to learn investing by doing many at once.
  • They intended to move to conventional one-off investing later.
  • The batch created friendships, weekly dinners, and demo day, so they kept it: ignorance turned out to be bliss.

sometimes maybe ignorance is sort of bliss and you just discover new things

Jessica Livingston · 1:23:00
#y-combinator#batch-model#origins#investing

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway30:30

Earnestness Is What She Really Looked For

Jessica calls earnestness, bucketed with authenticity, one of the most important founder traits. Successful founders care deeply about the problem and users, versus want-to-be founders chasing an idea because it's cool. She recalls 45-year-old men building a teen fashion app purely to make easy money as the opposite of earnest.

  • Earnest founders care intensely about the problem and the users they serve.
  • Earnestness shows as humility and honesty, including admitting when they don't know an answer.
  • The teen-fashion example was a made-up idea chasing easy money, not a real need.

to be a successful startup founder, you have to care so much about the problem you're trying to solve

Jessica Livingston · 30:30

It was just like they made up the idea.

Jessica Livingston · 32:00
#earnestness#authenticity#founders#evaluation
Takeaway36:00

Why Co-Founder History Matters So Much

Jessica spent much of her YC time mediating co-founder disputes, and many startups died or nearly died when founders broke up. In interviews she hunted for signs they didn't get along, and strongly preferred co-founders with a shared history, from school, work, or family, because trust and aligned aspirations are already there.

  • So many startups had near-death experiences from co-founders not getting along.
  • Signs of trouble: contradicting each other; good signs: finishing each other's sentences.
  • Two founders who teamed up just to do a startup with no shared history is a massive red flag, though it occasionally works (Dropbox).

You know, like I love co-founders that have a history together.

Jessica Livingston · 36:30

It's really scary when two founders get together just to start the startup and don't have any history. That that massive red flag.

Jessica Livingston · 37:00
#co-founders#team#red-flags#founders
Takeaway1:00:30

The Host Should Talk Less

Jessica's hardest-won podcasting lesson is that she talks way too much, calling herself a huge windbag. Editing her own episodes she'd hear herself ask a question in 20 sentences when two would do, so she trained herself to keep her talking frequent but short, and to interrupt guests who ramble.

  • She only noticed the over-talking when editing and listening back to herself.
  • Keep host dialogue frequent but short.
  • Interrupt guests when they go on too long.

is that I'm I talk way too much. I'm a huge windbag

Jessica Livingston · 1:01:00

the talking of the host should be frequent but short

Jessica Livingston · 1:01:30
#podcasting#interviewing#lessons#craft