Arielle Jackson (Google, Square, Marketer in Residence at Fi18 August 2022

The art of building legendary brands | Arielle Jackson (Google, Square, Marketer in Residence at First Round Capital)

5Frameworks

13Insights

Episode overview

Lenny Rachitsky talks with Arielle Jackson about naming companies and products, building an early-stage brand strategy, earning launch press, and deciding when to hire a marketer. Jackson presents brand strategy as three connected elements—purpose, positioning, and personality—and explains how each informs messaging, visual identity, and company decisions. She also shares concrete processes including naming briefs, thematic brainstorms, positioning worksheets, the “bar test,” and realistic PR planning.

Key ideas

A good name can help a company, but sustained product quality, strategy, and marketing can build meaning into an initially ordinary name.
Begin naming with product positioning, then create a naming brief, brainstorm widely, and evaluate finalists for trademark, domains, distinctiveness, timelessness, meaning, sound, appearance, and length.
An early-stage brand strategy should define purpose, product positioning, and personality before visual identity and copy are developed.
Purpose expresses the long-term change a company wants to create, while positioning should evolve on a shorter horizon as the product and market develop.
Effective positioning specifies the target audience, their problem, their current alternative, the product category, its benefit, and its differentiator in language customers naturally use.
Brand personality can be made actionable by selecting two personality dimensions and defining five tension-bearing statements in the form “we are X, but not Y.”
Startup PR works best when the company has a concise story, realistic outlet expectations, a broader news hook than funding alone, and relevance to the publication’s readers.
A startup should hire a full-time marketer when marketing work becomes continuous and coordination-heavy; sales-led companies should first establish a repeatable sales motion.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Marketing4 steps

Brand Personality via Five Dimensions

Spike in two of five personality dimensions, then write five 'we are X but not Y' attributes with built-in tension

Read →

Marketing4 steps

Product Positioning with the Bar Test

Define audience via concentric circles, distill into the classic four-part statement, then validate it out loud at a bar

Read →

Marketing4 steps

Startup Launch PR Playbook

Fix your story, set realistic exclusive expectations, hang news on a bigger hook, and mine local press

Read →

Strategy4 steps

The Purpose Statement (We Exist To)

Distill why you exist into one 10-year 'we exist to' sentence that makes people root for you

Read →

Marketing5 steps

The Startup Naming Process

Position first, brief the intent, brainstorm hundreds of bad names, then score survivors against seven criteria

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 18

Arielle JacksonMentionsarielle jackson from first round is an amazing support system to founders and marketers at startup
“ariel jackson spent nine years at google where she helped grow gmail in its early days”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter
“welcome to the podcast ariel thanks so much for having me”
▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
Kyle ZinkMentionstwo people i knew from google megan quinn and kyle's dink had gone to square from google
“two people i knew from google megan quinn and kyle's dink had gone to square from google”
▶ Watch at ~9:00approx.
Megan QuinnMentionstwo people i knew from google megan quinn and kyle's dink had gone to square from google
“two people i knew from google megan quinn and kyle's dink had gone to square from google”
▶ Watch at ~9:00approx.
Eero SaarinenMentionseero is for eero saarinen who is a designer
“eero is for eero saarinen who is a designer”
▶ Watch at ~16:30approx.
Phil KnightMentionswhat do you think Phil Knight was thinking about when he made that first version of the Nike running shoe
“i think phil nate with with nike when he was given that name like as a as an option”
▶ Watch at ~30:30approx.
LeBron JamesMentionsyou're kind of like being LeBron James like you're telling you're coaching people you're kind of like drawing up the play
“it's not just about you know lebron it's about me”
▶ Watch at ~45:30approx.
Jennifer AakerCoinedsome academic research by jennifer aker
“the first part is based on some academic research by jennifer aker”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:30approx.
Rory SutherlandRecommendsRory more than maybe anyone in the world he just sees the world through these these system lenses
“another recent marketing book is alchemy by rory sutherland”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:00approx.
Brit BennettCoinedmentioned
“for fiction i just read the vanishing half by brit benet it was like awesome”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:00approx.
Nick SharmaRecommendshe's a growth marketer he started his career i think at hintwater
“i love nick sharma's weekly newsletter he's a growth marketer”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
Anthony BourdainMentionsmentioned
“i had a celebrity crush on anthony bourdain and i'm excited to watch his new documentary”
▶ Watch at ~1:19:00approx.
Rory SutherlandMentionsRory more than maybe anyone in the world he just sees the world through these these system lenses
“david ogilvy rory sutherland seth godin”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:00approx.
Ana AndjelicRecommendsshe's a cmo chief brand officer type
“anna angelic she has a newsletter that i didn't mention before it's called the sociology of business that's really good”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:00approx.
Seth GodinMentionsSeth is an absolute Legend he's published 21 books including 18 International bestsellers
“david ogilvy rory sutherland seth godin”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:00approx.
David OgilvyMentionsmentioned
“david ogilvy rory sutherland seth godin”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:00approx.
Emily HeywardMentionsemily hayward from red antler
“emily hayward from red antler i also really like ross”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:30approx.
Ross SimmondsMentionsross simmons from foundation which is a content marketing agency
“ross simmons from foundation which is a content marketing agency”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:30approx.

Resources · 49

GmailMentionssoftware · Google
“she helped grow gmail in its early days taking it from just a side project”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
GoogleMentionscompany · Google
“ariel jackson spent nine years at google where she helped grow gmail in its early days”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
SquareMentionscompany · Block, Inc.
“then she went on to square where she was one of the first marketers”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
First Round CapitalMentionscompany
“she's a marketer in residence at first round capital”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
FrontMentionscompany
“including patreon bloom front euro maven sprig just to name a few”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
SprigMentionssoftware · Sprig
“including patreon bloom front euro maven sprig just to name a few”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
PatreonMentionscompany
“including patreon bloom front euro maven sprig just to name a few”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
LoomMentionssoftware · Loom
“you've worked with so many amazing companies uh google square loom patreon front”
▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
Square ReaderUsesproduct · Square
“then i got a square reader and i sold at a craft fair that year and it was awesome”
▶ Watch at ~8:30approx.
CoverMentionscompany · Todd Jackson
“it was called cover they were acquired by twitter it was an android app”
▶ Watch at ~10:00approx.
TwitterMentionswebsite · Twitter
“it was called cover they were acquired by twitter”
▶ Watch at ~10:00approx.
SeesawMentionssoftware
“it's now called seesaw it's an edtech company that was the first company i named”
▶ Watch at ~13:00approx.
MavenMentionswebsite · Maven
“another company that has a good name that you and i have both worked with is maven”
▶ Watch at ~14:30approx.
YahooMentionscompany
“words like that that are empty vessels they really don't mean anything”
▶ Watch at ~16:00approx.
EeroMentionscompany · Amazon
“i worked on a company eero that has kind of what is almost an empty vessel name”
▶ Watch at ~16:30approx.
Internet ExplorerMentionssoftware · Microsoft
“if your name is internet explorer rip i know exactly what you do”
▶ Watch at ~17:30approx.
Google ChromeMentionssoftware · Google
“if your name is chrome and you're a designer on the web you kind of might be like oh that makes sense”
▶ Watch at ~17:30approx.
FirefoxMentionssoftware · Mozilla
“if your name is firefox i have no idea what you did”
▶ Watch at ~18:00approx.
First Round ReviewRecommendswebsite · First Round Capital
“there's an article on the first round review called positioning positioning your startup is vital here's how to nail it”
▶ Watch at ~24:00approx.
Positioning Your Startup Is Vital — Here’s How to Nail ItRecommendsother · Arielle Jackson
“there's an article on the first round review called positioning positioning your startup is vital here's how to nail it”
▶ Watch at ~24:00approx.
TeslaMentionscompany · Tesla, Inc.
“think about like how did tesla get their name”
▶ Watch at ~26:00approx.
WikipediaUseswebsite · Wikimedia Foundation
“i spend some time afterwards on wikipedia and the internet and like actually finding weird words”
▶ Watch at ~26:30approx.
Google MapsMentionssoftware · Google
“google maps you know they're they're like really boring”
▶ Watch at ~28:00approx.
DisneyMentionscompany · The Walt Disney Company
“disney means magic today you know volvo means safety”
▶ Watch at ~29:00approx.
100 MonkeysRecommendscompany
“the naming firm i like the best uh when i get stuck it's called 100 monkeys they're awesome”
▶ Watch at ~33:30approx.
VolvoUsescompany
“i'm a big volvo fan i'm on my fourth volvo right now”
▶ Watch at ~37:30approx.
LogicLoopMentionscompany
“one company i worked on first round company they're called logic loop and it's an operations automation company”
▶ Watch at ~46:30approx.
WoolfMentionscompany
“another first round company they're called wolf they're informed by the uc model”
▶ Watch at ~47:00approx.
AltMentionscompany
“another one that i worked on a while ago is alt”
▶ Watch at ~48:00approx.
PokémonMentionsother
“alternatives to alternatives like sports cards and pokemon cards and art”
▶ Watch at ~48:30approx.
Mountain DewMentionsproduct · PepsiCo
“are you mountain dew or are you rolex or are you somewhere in between”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:30approx.
RolexMentionscompany
“are you mountain dew or are you rolex or are you somewhere in between”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:30approx.
Vitable HealthMentionscompany
“an example of that is i worked on this company vitable health”
▶ Watch at ~1:13:00approx.
AlchemyRecommendsbook · Rory Sutherland
“another recent marketing book is alchemy by rory sutherland”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:00approx.
Positioning: The Battle for Your MindRecommendsbook · Al Ries and Jack Trout
“definitely the book called positioning the battle for your mind it's from 1980 it's still my favorite marketing book”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:00approx.
The Vanishing HalfRecommendsbook · Brit Bennett
“for fiction i just read the vanishing half by brit benet it was like awesome”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:00approx.
The MothersMentionsbook · Brit Bennett
“i then read her other book called the mothers but i think the vanishing half's better”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
Nik Sharma’s NewsletterRecommendsnewsletter · Nik Sharma
“i love nick sharma's weekly newsletter”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
How I Built ThisRecommendspodcast · Guy Raz
“on podcasts i love how i built this”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
Lenny's PodcastRecommendspodcast · Lenny Rachitsky
“lenny's podcast i've been listening to is awesome”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
In DepthRecommendspodcast · First Round Capital
“the first round podcast in depth is pretty great”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
Old Enough!Recommendstv show
“there's this little netflix show called old enough it's a japanese show with subtitles about sending toddlers on errands in japan”
▶ Watch at ~1:19:00approx.
EncantoRecommendsfilm · Walt Disney Animation Studios
“and kanto those were all really great”
▶ Watch at ~1:19:00approx.
LucaRecommendsfilm · Pixar Animation Studios
“i really like some of those disney pixar movies luca”
▶ Watch at ~1:19:00approx.
Roadrunner: A Film About Anthony BourdainMentionsdocumentary · Morgan Neville
“i'm excited to watch his new documentary if i ever get around to it”
▶ Watch at ~1:19:00approx.
The Sociology of BusinessRecommendsnewsletter · Ana Andjelic
“she has a newsletter that i didn't mention before it's called the sociology of business that's really good”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:00approx.
Red AntlerMentionscompany
“emily hayward from red antler”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:30approx.
FoundationMentionstv show · Isaac Asimov
“ross simmons from foundation which is a content marketing agency”
▶ Watch at ~1:20:30approx.
Startup Brand StrategyCoinedcourse · Arielle Jackson
“i teach a course on startup brand strategy that covers everything we talked about”
▶ Watch at ~1:21:00approx.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster34:30

Your Brand Is Not Your Logo

Founders often equate 'brand' with logo, font and colors, but Arielle corrects this: those are only the visual expression. Your brand is who people actually think you are, and brand strategy is deciding what you want people to think and how you'll shape that perception.

Logo, font and colors are a visual expression of a brand, not the brand itself
Your brand is who people think you are
Brand strategy = what you want to be, what you want people to think, and how you'll shape it

“so your brand is who people think you are and developing a brand strategy is what do you want to be what do you want…”
Arielle Jackson · 35:00

#branding#brand-strategy#marketing

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take28:30

A Bad Name Won't Kill a Good Company

Arielle argues that a great name only helps a company at the margins, while a bad name won't doom a fundamentally good business. Over time, strong companies imbue even weak names with meaning, so founders should feel less pressure to find the 'perfect' name.

A good name helps spread word of mouth, but it's just one part of the overall brand
Disney (Walt's last name) and Volvo were 'bad' names that came to mean magic and safety over time
In a plain spreadsheet cell, most legendary brand names look unremarkable
Realizing this takes the pressure off the naming process

“disney means magic today you know volvo means safety those names are not good like if i just put it in a spreadsheet or one…”
Arielle Jackson · 29:00

“a good name is just going to help you but i don't think a bad name is going to kill a good company”
Arielle Jackson · 29:30

#naming#branding#startups

Hot Take1:01:30

When Brands Try Too Hard: The ADP 'Fun Summer' Fail

Arielle critiques an ADP marketing email that tried to make home security sound fun and colloquial for summer. Because a security brand's personality is serious, the forced fun reads as awkward and inauthentic; the copy should have leaned into safety instead.

ADP tried too hard to sound fun and colloquial for a serious security product
Forced, off-personality copy feels awkward and inauthentic
Better copy: 'secure your home while you're away' / 'feel safe when you're on your summer trip'
Tone must match the brand's actual personality

“of trying too hard right like they tried too hard to make it sound colloquial and fun like they're a security system”
Arielle Jackson · 1:02:00

#brand-personality#copywriting#marketing

Explainer· 1

Explainer15:30

Why 'Empty Vessel' Names Cost More to Build

Arielle explains the spectrum of names from descriptive to 'empty vessel' (Yahoo, Google, Apple, Eero). Meaningless names can be memorable and evocative, but require far more marketing spend and consistency over time to make them stand for something. A name with built-in meaning does part of your marketing work for you.

Empty vessel names (Yahoo, Apple, Eero) carry no inherent meaning and need heavy investment to build
A name with meaning does some of your marketing work for free
Internet Explorer, Chrome and Firefox sit at different points on the descriptive-to-fanciful spectrum
All three browsers succeeded despite very different name types

“my take on empty vessel names is they can be really memorable and they can be evocative of the motion but you have to do…”
Arielle Jackson · 16:00

“if your name is internet explorer rip i know exactly what you do”
Arielle Jackson · 17:30

#naming#branding#marketing

Story· 4

Story04:30

Launching the Square Stand, 30 Weeks Pregnant

Arielle recounts her favorite project: volunteering as a first-time product marketer to launch the Square Stand, the iPad point-of-sale hardware that moved Square up-market into brick-and-mortar. She seeded the coolest coffee and donut shops across 15 metro areas and unveiled it at Blue Bottle while heavily pregnant.

Square was ~140 people with no PM function and hardware team running the show
She handled everything: positioning, packaging, negotiating with Best Buy and the Apple Store
Seeded ~15 metro areas with cool coffee shops, donut shops and Blue Bottle stores
She still gets excited paying on the original Square Stand years later

“i was like super pregnant and super proud and i i still i still get kind of excited every time i pay on one of…”
Arielle Jackson · 06:00

#square#product-launch#hardware

Story08:00

Selling Jewelry Is How She Got Into Square

Before Square, Arielle made and sold jewelry as a side hustle, taking cash and painful PayPal invoices at craft fairs. Getting a Square reader transformed her sales, and her enthusiastic email to two Google friends who had joined Square turned into a job.

The Square reader helped her sell ~50% more by accepting credit cards
Her firsthand merchant experience helped her understand the small merchants Square marketed to
An excited email to two ex-Google colleagues at Square led directly to an interview

“i think i sent them both an email just being like this thing's [ __ ] awesome you know i make jewelry it was great”
Arielle Jackson · 09:00

#square#career#origin-story

Story37:30

Volvo Owns 'Safety' Because of Decisions, Not Its Logo

Arielle uses Volvo, a brand she's fiercely loyal to, to show that a brand's meaning comes from actions, not visual identity. Volvo's boring logo and color palette don't convey safety; giving away the three-point seatbelt patent for free in the 1950s did.

Volvo's logo (from its ball-bearings history) and black/white/blue palette are unremarkable
Their founding belief was that a carmaker's job is to protect the humans driving
In the 1950s they gave away the three-point safety harness patent for free to make all cars safer
Company decisions, not the logo, made Volvo stand for safety

“those kinds of company decisions that's what made volvo stand for safety it's not the logo”
Arielle Jackson · 39:30

#branding#volvo#case-study

Story1:13:00

Make Your Customers the Heroes for Local Press

Arielle shares how she landed coverage for Vitable Health, which sells affordable primary and urgent care for hourly workers, by tying it to the 'great resignation' and framing local businesses as heroes. Local press is hungry for these stories and far more accessible than national outlets.

Vitable offers ~$50/person/month primary and urgent care for hourly workers who fall between Medicaid and insurance
The story was framed around the great resignation and businesses attracting hourly workers
A Philadelphia Inquirer piece cast local restaurants and daycares as heroes, not Vitable
At Square she turned customers into heroes and went after local press, which is hungrier for stories than the NYT or WSJ

“we turned all of our customers into heroes and went after local press”
Arielle Jackson · 1:14:00

“they are the ones hungry for these stories more than um you know the new york times in the wall street journal”
Arielle Jackson · 1:14:30

#pr#local-press#storytelling

Tool· 1

Tool1:16:30

Arielle's Favorite Marketing Books

In the lightning round, Arielle names her go-to marketing reads. Her all-time favorite is the 1980 classic 'Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind,' and a recent favorite is Rory Sutherland's 'Alchemy,' which sits at the intersection of behavioral science and business.

'Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind' (1980) is her favorite marketing book
'Alchemy' by Rory Sutherland is a recent favorite
Her favorite reading area is behavioral science and psychology meeting business

“definitely the book called positioning the battle for your mind it's from 1980 it's still my favorite marketing book”
Arielle Jackson · 1:17:00

#books#marketing#recommendations

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway31:30

Pick a Code Name So Ridiculous You'd Never Launch It

A common naming mistake is that founders incorporate quickly under a placeholder name, then get emotionally attached and reluctant to change it. Arielle recommends deliberately choosing a code name so absurd you'd never actually launch under it, freeing you to run a real naming process later.

Founders often raise a seed round or incorporate under a throwaway name
Attachment sets in, making it hard to switch even when the name is weak or has trademark conflicts
A deliberately ridiculous code name keeps you unattached until you find a real name

“i really believe in using a code name that's so ridiculous that you won't ever launch a product like that if you're just trying to…”
Arielle Jackson · 32:00

#naming#startups#founder-mistakes

Takeaway55:00

The Worst Thing an Early Startup Can Do Is Serve Everyone

Arielle argues early-stage companies lack the runway to be everything to everyone. The winning move is to pick a target audience big enough that dominating it makes you a giant business, while narrowing to a focused, nameable segment like Eero's 'tech savvy dads.'

Early companies don't have the runway to serve everyone
Find an audience big enough that dominating it makes you a giant business
Eero targeted 'tech savvy dads' with a richly detailed model persona
The target audience is only who you actively try to acquire for the next 18 months, not everyone you'll ever get

“the worst thing you can do is try to be everything to everyone because you don't have enough runway”
Arielle Jackson · 55:30

#positioning#target-audience#startups

Takeaway1:10:30

PR Reality: Launches Are Now Exclusives, Not Embargoes

Arielle explains how startup PR has changed: the old embargo model where five outlets all published at once is gone. Today early-stage launches almost always run as a single-outlet exclusive, and a straight funding announcement is weak on its own.

Five years ago founders could brief 3-5 outlets under embargo to publish simultaneously
Now early-stage launches are almost always a single-outlet exclusive
You can still run your own blog, social, and investor channels alongside
Don't do a bare funding announcement; use the funding as a hook to tell a bigger story

“these days for early stage startups we're almost always running the launch announcement as an exclusive which means you give the news to a single…”
Arielle Jackson · 1:11:00

“we'll use that funding announcement as a news hook to cut to tell a larger story”
Arielle Jackson · 1:12:30

#pr#startups#launch

Takeaway1:15:00

When a Startup Should Hire Its First Marketer

Arielle offers a heuristic for hiring a full-time marketer, which differs by business type. Sales-driven businesses should wait for a repeatable sales motion first; marketing-driven businesses tend to need someone around 10 people, when cobbled-together agencies and freelancers become too hard to manage.

Sales-driven businesses should nail a repeatable sales motion before hiring a marketer
Marketing-driven businesses usually need a marketer around 10 people
The trigger is when ongoing work replaces discrete one-off projects (a name, a website, an ad test)
She favors a 't-shaped marketer' who is deep in one function but capable across all

“if you're a marketing driven business it generally seems to me like it happens around 10 people”
Arielle Jackson · 1:15:30

#hiring#marketing#startups

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

Brand Personality via Five Dimensions

Product Positioning with the Bar Test

Startup Launch PR Playbook

The Purpose Statement (We Exist To)

The Startup Naming Process

People & resources mentioned

People · 18

Resources · 49

Insights & moments

⚡Myth Buster· 1

Your Brand Is Not Your Logo

◆Hot Take· 2

A Bad Name Won't Kill a Good Company

When Brands Try Too Hard: The ADP 'Fun Summer' Fail

✶Explainer· 1

Why 'Empty Vessel' Names Cost More to Build

❝Story· 4

Launching the Square Stand, 30 Weeks Pregnant

Selling Jewelry Is How She Got Into Square

Volvo Owns 'Safety' Because of Decisions, Not Its Logo

Make Your Customers the Heroes for Local Press

✦Tool· 1

Arielle's Favorite Marketing Books

▲Takeaway· 4

Pick a Code Name So Ridiculous You'd Never Launch It

The Worst Thing an Early Startup Can Do Is Serve Everyone

PR Reality: Launches Are Now Exclusives, Not Embargoes

When a Startup Should Hire Its First Marketer

Myth Buster· 1

Hot Take· 2

Explainer· 1

Story· 4

Tool· 1

Takeaway· 4