Ami Vora (CPO at Faire, ex-WhatsApp, FB, IG)23 June 2024

Making an impact through authenticity and curiosity

9Frameworks

15Insights

Episode overview

Faire CPO Ami Vora explains how replacing the need to be right with genuine curiosity improves disagreements, learning, and team outcomes. She shares practical approaches to product reviews, strategy, execution, goal-setting, and narrative-building through memorable metaphors such as the dinosaur brain, hill climb, and toddler soccer. The conversation also examines confidence, feedback faced by women in technology, senior leadership's unavoidable trade-offs, and her transition from Meta to Faire.

Key ideas

Treat disagreement as an opportunity to discover information you do not have, pausing before responding so curiosity can replace a defensive reaction.
In product reviews, the team closest to the work should bring a concise recommendation while leaders contribute broader context and help establish reusable decision principles.
Shared metaphors can align teams around the intended customer feeling without requiring leaders to prescribe every product decision.
Strong execution creates customer value and a feedback loop that improves an initially good-enough strategy; a perfect strategy with weak execution teaches little.
Strategy becomes useful only when it changes team behavior, resource allocation, products, or customer outcomes.
Break company outcomes into distinct, causally connected team goals to avoid “toddler soccer,” where every team crowds the same metric or surface.
Do not shrink in response to feedback; expand the set of tools and communication styles available while consciously choosing which feedback to act on.
Senior leaders usually face inherently suboptimal choices, so they should make trade-offs explicit and choose consistently using shared principles.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Strategy5 steps

Execution Beats Strategy

Perfect strategy with poor execution teaches you nothing. Good-enough strategy with perfect execution compounds.

Read →

Influence5 steps

Expand, Don't Shrink

Insert a step between receiving feedback and acting on it — then answer it by adding tools, never by getting smaller.

Read →

Communication6 steps

Feeling-First Product Metaphor

Pick the feeling, name where you last felt it, and let the metaphor make a thousand small decisions for you.

Read →

Mindset5 steps

Leader Emulators

Build runnable models of the sharpest people you've worked with, then boot the right one when you're stuck.

Read →

Self-Mastery5 steps

Putting On the Coat of the Job

Run the spreadsheet, then tear it up — and simulate a Tuesday in the job instead.

Read →

Leadership6 steps

The Dinosaur Brain Product Review

Executives hold three facts. Bring a recommendation, not a catalogue — and leave with principles, not answers.

Read →

Communication5 steps

The Fascinating Reframe

Convert the visceral urge to be right into a question that harvests the information you're missing.

Read →

Strategy5 steps

The Hill Climb

Name whether you're optimising a local hill or crossing the valley to a bigger mountain — then price the valley.

Read →

Leadership6 steps

Toddler Soccer Goal Detangling

Goal every team on the same output metric and they swarm the ball. Detangle the customer journey into lanes.

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 10

Ami VoraMentionslegendary longtime came in worked on on our development platform then worked with me on ads
“Amy is Chief product officer at Fair”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter
“today my guest is Amy Vora”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Andrew BosworthMentionsIdentified as Meta's CTO and formerly Facebook's head of ads; he encouraged Deb Liu to publish monthly.
“BOS the CTO of meta was on this podcast a few months ago”
▶ Watch at ~10:00approx.
Dan HockenmaierMentionscurrently working at Fair where he's head of strategy and analytics and through his Consulting business basis one
“our mutual friend Dan hawen me he's in a meeting”
▶ Watch at ~15:30approx.
Eric AntonowMentionsHe's this creative uh product person that's kind of under the radar now. He's at Facebook for a long time.
“I worked for for a manager his name is Eric antino”
▶ Watch at ~29:30approx.
Jeffrey PfefferMentionsHe teaches this class at Stanford Business School about how to how to gain power in the world.
“this professor from Stanford Jeffrey feffer who teaches a class called the path to power”
▶ Watch at ~51:00approx.
Max RhodesMentionsMax is an amazing CEO who's also super growth mindset
“Max is an amazing CEO who's also super growth mindset”
▶ Watch at ~1:09:30approx.
Brandi BarkerMentionsthe head of PR Brandy Barker
“the head of PR Brandy Barker”
▶ Watch at ~1:14:00approx.
Shonda RhimesCoinedthe year of yes by shaer ryes
“the year of yes by shaer ryes”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
Matthew DicksMentionshe helps people create their eulogy ahead of time before somebody passes away
“an episode of Matthew dicks who has a TED talk about saying yes to everything”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.

Resources · 26

FaireMentionscompany
“Fair which connects independent retailers and Brands around the world”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Facebook PlatformCoinedsoftware · Facebook
“she launched the first Facebook developer platform”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
FacebookMentionscompany · Meta
“Amy was Employee 150 at Facebook where she launched the first Facebook developer platform”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
InstagramMentionssoftware · Meta
“she also oversaw the introduction of ads on the Instagram platform”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
WhatsAppMentionssoftware · Meta
“she led product in design for the largest messaging app in the world WhatsApp”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky
“welcome to the podcast”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
SidebarRecommendscompany · Sidebar
“let me tell you about a product called sidebar”
▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
AnvilRecommendssoftware · Anvil
“this episode is brought to you by Anvil their document SDK helps product teams build and launch software for documents fast”
▶ Watch at ~6:00approx.
CartaUsescompany
“companies like Carta and vouch Insurance use Anvil”
▶ Watch at ~6:30approx.
Vouch InsuranceUsescompany
“companies like Carta and vouch Insurance use Anvil”
▶ Watch at ~6:30approx.
MetaMentionscompany
“BOS the CTO of meta was on this podcast a few months ago”
▶ Watch at ~10:00approx.
Dolores ParkMentionsplace
“I felt this way when I was hanging with my friends in Dolores Park”
▶ Watch at ~30:00approx.
WhatsAppUsessoftware · Meta
“I was just using WhatsApp to do a video call with my mom”
▶ Watch at ~37:00approx.
MetaUsescompany
“that's something we used to say a lot at meta”
▶ Watch at ~38:00approx.
Path to PowerCoinedcourse · Jeffrey Pfeffer
“this professor from Stanford Jeffrey feffer who teaches a class called the path to power”
▶ Watch at ~51:00approx.
Harvard Business ReviewMentionswebsite · Harvard Business Publishing
“there's this Harvard Business review article from like the 70s or 80s or something about monkeys on your back”
▶ Watch at ~1:05:00approx.
FaireUsescompany
“I came to fair for the same reason that I've been anywhere because I believe in the people and I believe in the mission”
▶ Watch at ~1:06:00approx.
Silicon ValleyMentionsplace · Mike Judge, John Altschuler, and Dave Krinsky
“be involved in all the wild stuff happening in Silicon Valley in the mid 2000s”
▶ Watch at ~1:13:00approx.
FacebookUsescompany · Meta
“the only place I wanted to work was Facebook”
▶ Watch at ~1:13:30approx.
Coupa CafeMentionsplace
“I Saidi buy you fancy coffee at Koopa Cafe in downtown paloalto”
▶ Watch at ~1:14:00approx.
Year of YesRecommendsbook · Shonda Rhimes
“the year of yes by shaer ryes”
▶ Watch at ~1:17:30approx.
The OfficeRecommendstv show · Greg Daniels
“I watch a lot of like the office or 30 Ro reruns things are just very comfortable”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
30 RockRecommendstv show
“I watch a lot of like the office or 30 Ro reruns things are just very comfortable”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
Fellow electric kettleRecommendsproduct · Fellow
“I have like a fellow's electric kettle that was my big work from home upgrade”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:30approx.
The Parts of GrowthCoinednewsletter · Ami Vora
“it's called the parts of growth”
▶ Watch at ~1:22:30approx.
LinkedInUseswebsite · LinkedIn
“I cross post to LinkedIn”
▶ Watch at ~1:23:00approx.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 4

Hot Take10:00

Trade Being Right for Getting the Outcome

Meta CTO Boz described Ami reacting to profound disagreement with genuine curiosity — 'fascinating, tell me more' — rather than defensiveness. Ami admits this didn't come naturally; she loved being right, and her identity was built on it. The shift came when she realized her ego was cutting her off from information other people had, sabotaging the actual outcome.

Ami's childhood identity was built on being the person who was right
Wanting to be right made her ignore information other people had
The unlock: it's more important to get to the outcome than to be right
Assume everyone in a meeting knows something you don't — then meetings become discovery

“I really enjoy being right I love to be right I think most of us love being right”
Ami Vora · 11:00

“the hard part is just like sublimating your ego a little bit and saying it's more important to get to the outcome than to be…”
Ami Vora · 13:30

#curiosity#ego#disagreement#leadership

Hot Take37:30

Execution Eats Strategy for Breakfast

Ami is a firm believer that execution beats strategy every time. Strategy is glamorous and fun, but customers don't care about your five-year plan — they care about the product in their hands. Worse, perfect strategy with poor execution teaches you nothing, because you never learn whether the strategy or the execution was wrong.

Customers care about the product in their hands, not your fancy strategy
Perfect strategy plus poor execution means the strategy never reaches the market
You also learn nothing — you can't tell if the strategy or the execution failed
Good-enough strategy plus perfect execution lets you learn and iterate to a great strategy
Roughly 20% of time on strategy, the bulk on getting it to market

“customers don't care about your fancy strategies and like your Five-Year Plan they care about the product that's in their hands”
Ami Vora · 38:30

“if you have great strategy perfect strategy but poor execution you don't win because your strategy never makes it to the market”
Ami Vora · 39:00

#strategy#execution#product-management

Hot Take52:00

Telling Women to 'Find a Mentor' Is Just Another Hoop

Ami's hot take: the standard advice to find a mentor and a sponsor is another set of hoops we hand women that we don't hand others. It frames success as needing someone who made all your same life choices and has a spare hour a month to be your oracle. Ami had incredibly generous leaders help her, but never that single mentor — and spent years feeling she was missing something she actually didn't need.

Women get more personal feedback about style than about the content of their role
'Find a mentor and a sponsor' is another burden placed disproportionately on women
The mentor ideal — same life path, an hour a month to advise you — is unrealistic
Many generous leaders helped Ami without any of them being 'the mentor'

“there's a bunch of research about how women get a lot more personal feedback but is less about the content of their role and more…”
Ami Vora · 52:30

“here's a hot take I think we tell women things like you need to find a mentor and you need to find a sponsor and…”
Ami Vora · 54:00

#women-in-tech#mentorship#career#hot-take

Hot Take1:01:30

The More Senior You Get, the Worse Every Decision Looks

Ami offers a dark but honest view of seniority: the only problems that reach you are the fundamentally unsolvable ones, because anything solvable got solved before it climbed the ladder. All you can do is choose which branch of suboptimal to put your name on, then explain the principles behind it. From a distance it looks like you only make bad decisions — because those are the only options you have.

Solvable problems get solved before they reach senior leaders
Senior decisions are choosing the least-bad among suboptimal options
The job is to name the principles and trade-offs behind the choice
Normalizing this hard truth keeps it from feeling like personal failure

“as you get senior the only problems you'll see are ones that are fundamentally unsolvable CU otherwise someone would have solved it before they got…”
Ami Vora · 1:02:00

“all you're doing is like choosing which branch of sub optimal you're going to put your name on”
Ami Vora · 1:02:30

#leadership#decision-making#seniority

Explainer· 3

Explainer17:00

The Executive 'Dinosaur Brain' Holds Three Facts

Ami tells her teams to assume executives have a tiny dinosaur brain that can only hold three facts at once — including herself. The point isn't to dump all the information on leaders hoping they'll reach the right conclusion; it's to do the work of making a recommendation. The breadth an executive has makes them good at pattern-matching, not at going deep on your data.

Executives can only hold about three facts at a time and can't go deep on everything
The instinct to show all the information so smart people decide is a mistake
The best service is to do the work and bring an actual recommendation
The leader's value is pattern-matching and context, not re-analyzing your data

“assume that like Executives have like a a little tiny dinosaur brain like we all have like a little brontosaurus brain and we can really…”
Ami Vora · 18:00

“the best service you can do is to actually do the work of making a recommendation”
Ami Vora · 18:30

#product-management#communication#leadership#product-reviews

Explainer26:30

The Hill Climb: Local vs Global Optimum

Ami's hill-climb metaphor captures the choice between optimizing your current position (local optimum) and abandoning it to chase a far larger mountain (global optimum). Getting to the bigger peak means climbing down into an unknown valley with no guarantee you'll make it up the other side — like desktop companies rebuilding for mobile, or big life changes. What carries her through the valley is remembering how the summit feels.

A local optimum feels great but a taller mountain is visible in the distance
Reaching it means descending your hill, crossing an unknown chasm, and climbing again
Applies to jobs, moves, relationships, and product bets like desktop-to-mobile
The slog is supposed to feel bad because you're still in the valley

“the hill climb is all about like the difference between local Optimum and a global Optimum”
Ami Vora · 26:30

“the thing that gets me through the valley is remembering what the summit feels like when you're on top of it”
Ami Vora · 28:30

#strategy#metaphor#risk#product

Explainer56:00

Avoiding 'Toddler Soccer' in Team Goals

When every team is pointed at the same top-line metric like revenue or GMV, you get 'toddler soccer' — everyone swarming the same surface, tripping over each other, nobody really controlling the ball. Ami's fix is to detangle the customer journey so each team owns a different goal that ladders into a shared framework, giving everyone room to make progress on their lane while solving the full customer problem.

Pointing all teams at one metric causes everyone to swarm the same surface
Ami calls this 'toddler soccer' — no coordination, everyone tripping over each other
Detangle the customer journey and give each team a distinct, laddering goal
Goal on input metrics (visits, conversion, reorders), not just the output
The sub-metric must genuinely connect to the output, not just make a team feel good

“that leads to like what I call toddler soccer you know where everybody just runs to the same surface or the same customer”
Ami Vora · 56:30

“every team we had internally had a different goal that ladders into like a goal framework”
Ami Vora · 57:30

#goal-setting#team-structure#metrics#leadership

Story· 2

Story48:00

Wearing Earth Tones to Be More Likable

Ami got repeated feedback that being the smartest person in the room didn't matter if people didn't like her. Taking it seriously, she shrank herself — became less aggressive, less opinionated, even wore earth tones for two years to fade back. It worked, until she stepped into a leadership job where her team needed her opinions and she'd trained herself out of having them.

The feedback: you can be smartest in the room but it doesn't matter if people don't like you
Ami responded by shrinking herself and being less opinionated
She wore earth tones for two years to fade into the background
It backfired when a leadership role required the opinions she'd suppressed
Her reframed lesson: don't make yourself smaller, add new tools instead

“you could be the smartest person in the room but it doesn't matter if people don't like you”
Ami Vora · 48:30

“I wore earth tones for like two years because I was just like I gotta fade back a little bit”
Ami Vora · 49:00

#women-in-tech#feedback#leadership#career

Story1:12:30

Talking Her Way Into Facebook as a Temp

In 2007, the only place Ami wanted to work was Facebook. She bought people coffee at Coupa Cafe in exchange for introductions and told everyone she'd do whatever they needed. The one callback came from the head of PR, who said they couldn't hire her — no interview, no headcount, not qualified — but needed a temp to review press releases. She moved to California, slept on couches, and eventually went full-time.

In 2007 Facebook was the only company Ami wanted to work at
She traded coffee at Coupa Cafe for introductions around the office
The head of PR listed ten reasons she couldn't be hired, then offered a temp role
She moved out, slept on couches, and never looked back — later leading FB ads and WhatsApp

“it was 2007 and the only place I wanted to work was Facebook”
Ami Vora · 1:13:00

“hey I'm iy I really want to work here I'll do whatever you need”
Ami Vora · 1:14:00

#career#facebook#networking#origin-story

Takeaway· 6

Takeaway02:00

Successful People Are Winging It Too

Ami opens by rejecting the myth of the flawless 'super woman' leader who answers every email in seconds and never sleeps. She admits she loves sleep, wastes time on absurd things, and literally works from her bathroom because it had the most doors between her and her three kids. The real lesson: nobody has it fully figured out, and that's normal.

The image of successful people 'having it all figured out' is false and discouraging
Most people are winging it and learning through trial and error
Ami works from her bathroom because it was the quietest room during the pandemic
Accepting the messiness frees you to believe you can succeed too

“I love to sleep I like waste time doing absurd things all time”
Ami Vora · 02:30

“no one's got it fully figured out you never know how someone else is living like most of us are winging it and learning as…”
Ami Vora · 03:00

#authenticity#career#imposter-syndrome#leadership

Takeaway08:00

Choosing Jobs by Feel, Not by Spreadsheet

Instead of relying on the mental spreadsheet of where a job puts you in five years, Ami 'puts on the coat of the job' — imagining what her commute, lunches, and daily problems would feel like. The emotional read is more predictive of success than the math. What she's really looking for is a feeling of being at home, which comes down to trust.

Spreadsheet job comparisons don't determine how good you'll be at the role
Imagine the day-to-day: commute thoughts, who you'd have lunch with, problems you'd solve
The emotional response is 'much more telling' than the five-year projection
The best work comes from a feeling of being at home, which is built on trust

“I try to just put on the coat of the job like when I wake up in the morning I'm like what would it be…”
Ami Vora · 09:00

“the thing that that has led me to like the places where I do my best work is a feeling of being at home which…”
Ami Vora · 09:30

#career#decision-making#intuition

Takeaway20:00

Product Reviews Should Calibrate Principles, Not Decisions

Ami argues product reviews are misused as decision factories. If a team returns for every decision, you get fast answers but never grow the org's capacity to make good decisions. The better goal is to walk out of one decision with principles — the trade-offs, who you're optimizing for, the timeline, the risk tolerance — so teams can run without coming back.

Using reviews to get individual decisions doesn't build org decision-making capacity
Bring one decision but aim to leave with reusable principles
Surface the trade-offs, who you're optimizing for, the timeline, and risk tolerance
Write everything, then cut almost all of it to force a clean, opinionated recommendation

“we misuse product reviews sometimes as ways to get decisions and actually they should be ways to calibrate on principles”
Ami Vora · 20:30

“making sure you walk away with principles not answers”
Ami Vora · 22:00

#product-reviews#decision-making#leadership

Takeaway29:30

Build Metaphors Around How You Want Users to Feel

Ami learned from a manager, Eric, to design products by asking how they should make people feel and when they last felt that way. For WhatsApp, the guiding metaphor was face-to-face communication — the most universal form, where you just open your mouth and words come out. A shared narrative like that lets a whole team build something consistent without dictating every decision.

Ask how a product should make users feel and when they last felt that way
WhatsApp's metaphor was face-to-face, the most universal form of communication
Small features (typing indicators, read receipts) add up to a feeling of presence
A shared story means designers and engineers naturally build something coherent

“how is this product going to make you feel and when is the last time that you felt this way”
Ami Vora · 30:00

“the most univers form of communication is face to face”
Ami Vora · 33:00

#metaphor#product-design#whatsapp#team-alignment

Takeaway30:00

Load Other Leaders Into Your Head as 'Emulators'

When Ami is stuck on a problem, she runs a mental 'emulator' of leaders she's worked with — asking how Eric would describe it, what principles Boz would apply, or whether Rob Goldman would tell her to look at the dashboard. Each person is a fresh lens and an added toolkit, and it keeps her from getting bored on hard problems.

Build mental emulators of very different leaders you've worked with
Each emulator gives a fresh lens and expands your toolkit
Examples: Eric for metaphors, Boz for principled trade-offs, Rob Goldman for the dashboard
Useful when you're stumped — load someone else in and ask how they'd approach it

“one thing I like to do is try to build like an emulator for different people in my head”
Ami Vora · 30:00

“what would Rob Goldman say he'd say look at the dashboard have I looked at the dashboard no okay let me go look at the…”
Ami Vora · 35:00

#mental-models#leadership#problem-solving

Takeaway1:19:30

You Can Have More Energy or Less Ambition

Early in her career someone told Ami: you can either have more energy or less ambition. She found it harsh but true, and thinks about it constantly. If she wants a certain level of impact, she has to do the uncomfortable work — and she can't be mad about a lack of impact if she isn't willing to put in the energy. The two go together.

The advice: you can either have more energy or less ambition
Big impact requires doing the work and feeling uncomfortable
You can't be upset about low impact if you won't put in the energy
Ambition and energy have to move together

“you can either have more energy or less ambition”
Ami Vora · 1:19:30

“if I want to have this kind of impact I'm going to have to do the work I'm going to have to try new things…”
Ami Vora · 1:20:00

#ambition#career#motto

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

Execution Beats Strategy

Expand, Don't Shrink

Feeling-First Product Metaphor

Leader Emulators

Putting On the Coat of the Job

The Dinosaur Brain Product Review

The Fascinating Reframe

The Hill Climb

Toddler Soccer Goal Detangling

People & resources mentioned

People · 10

Resources · 26

Insights & moments

◆Hot Take· 4

Trade Being Right for Getting the Outcome

Execution Eats Strategy for Breakfast

Telling Women to 'Find a Mentor' Is Just Another Hoop

The More Senior You Get, the Worse Every Decision Looks

✶Explainer· 3

The Executive 'Dinosaur Brain' Holds Three Facts

The Hill Climb: Local vs Global Optimum

Avoiding 'Toddler Soccer' in Team Goals

❝Story· 2

Wearing Earth Tones to Be More Likable

Talking Her Way Into Facebook as a Temp

▲Takeaway· 6

Successful People Are Winging It Too

Choosing Jobs by Feel, Not by Spreadsheet

Product Reviews Should Calibrate Principles, Not Decisions

Build Metaphors Around How You Want Users to Feel

Load Other Leaders Into Your Head as 'Emulators'

You Can Have More Energy or Less Ambition

Hot Take· 4

Explainer· 3

Story· 2

Takeaway· 6