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Melissa Perri28 July 2022

How to create a winning product strategy

7Frameworks
13Insights

Episode overview

Melissa Perri explains that many apparent product-team training problems actually originate in how companies set goals, prioritize work, and deploy strategy. She describes when growing companies need a CPO, how a clearly communicated strategy connects team activity to customer and business outcomes, and how written narratives and visuals can make a product vision concrete. She also outlines product operations as the discipline that supplies internal and external insights while standardizing cross-functional planning, roadmap, and strategy-review processes. For individual product managers, she emphasizes learning through execution, studying specific skill gaps, talking across departments, and adapting frameworks that do not serve the team.

Key ideas

  • A scale-up often needs a CPO when its product portfolio, markets, organizational scope, or executive communication become too complex for purely execution-focused leadership.
  • A practical test for strategy is whether every team can explain what it is building, why it matters to customers, and how it supports prioritized business outcomes.
  • Strategy frequently exists only in leaders' heads; concise written narratives can expose disagreement, clarify choices, and connect strategic intents to product initiatives and solutions.
  • A useful vision is concrete enough to picture, ambitious enough to require iteration, explicit about differentiation, and clear about what the company will not do.
  • Product operations helps scale product management through internal data, customer and market research, and standardized cross-functional planning and review cadences.
  • Strategy requires making the best informed choice available, monitoring evidence, and changing direction when the choice proves wrong.
  • Product managers improve most through execution, reflection, focused study of their skill gaps, and conversations with leaders and other departments.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Self-Mastery4 steps

Build Your Own PM Toolbox (Learning Without Burnout)

Learn from execution, self-retrospect, deep-dive one skill gap at a time, and keep only what works for you.

Read →
Strategy4 steps

Setting Strategy From Data, Then Committing to a Choice

Gather internal data, customer research and company goals, make the best informed bet, then reevaluate and pivot.

Read →
Strategy4 steps

The Ask-Every-Team Test (Diagnosing a Missing Strategy)

Interview teams and leaders to reveal whether a real, aligned strategy exists — or just lives unspoken in people's heads.

Read →
Strategy4 steps

The Strategy Tree (Deploying Strategy Through the Missing Middle)

Connect team-level work to business outcomes through three linked layers so no one asks why they're building something.

Read →
Productivity3 steps

The Three Pillars of Product Operations

Scale product management with internal data & insights, customer research at scale, and standardized strategy cadences.

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Leadership4 steps

When to Hire a Chief Product Officer

Use portfolio complexity, revenue scale, PM headcount and trigger events — not a title chart — to know it's CPO time.

Read →
Strategy3 steps

Writing a Compelling Product Vision

A vision people can picture, that's lofty but not yet achieved, and that says what you won't do.

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 3

  • Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter

    “melissa welcome thank you so much for joining me”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
  • Melissa PerriMentionsThrough teaching, consulting, interim CPO work, and Product Institute, she has worked with thousands of product managers and hundreds of companies.

    “melissa welcome thank you so much for joining me”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
  • Melissa PerriMentionsThrough teaching, consulting, interim CPO work, and Product Institute, she has worked with thousands of product managers and hundreds of companies.

    “between teaching consulting and all of those different things it's probably north of 4000 at this point”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.

Resources · 35

  • InstacartUsescompany · Apoorva Mehta, Max Mullen, and Brandon Leonardo

    “used by both big companies like shopify instacart and atlassian”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • ShopifyUsescompany · Shopify

    “used by both big companies like shopify instacart and atlassian”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • AtlassianUsescompany

    “used by both big companies like shopify instacart and atlassian”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • AmplitudeRecommendssoftware · Amplitude

    “try amplitude for free just visit amplitude.com to get started”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
  • Apple StoreKitMentionssoftware · Apple

    “a back-end and a wrapper around apple store kit and google play billing”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
  • Google Play BillingMentionssoftware · Google

    “a back-end and a wrapper around apple store kit and google play billing”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
  • FirebaseMentionssoftware · Google

    “pre-built integrations with best-in-class tools like amplitude apps flyer and firebase”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • Life360Usessoftware · Life360

    “see why companies like notion bisco and life360 use revenue cap to power in-app subscriptions”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • RevenueCatRecommendscompany · RevenueCat

    “learn more at revenuecat.com”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • AppsFlyerMentionssoftware · AppsFlyer

    “pre-built integrations with best-in-class tools like amplitude apps flyer and firebase”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • VSCOUsessoftware · Visual Supply Company

    “see why companies like notion bisco and life360 use revenue cap to power in-app subscriptions”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • NotionUsessoftware · Notion Labs

    “see why companies like notion bisco and life360 use revenue cap to power in-app subscriptions”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • Product LabsMentionscompany

    “since i started products labs we've done over 30 companies where we've been in there”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
  • Harvard Business SchoolUsesplace

    “i'm teaching at harvard i teach the second year mbas and their elective program product management”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
  • Product InstituteCoinedcourse · Melissa Perri

    “i have had an online school since 2016 called product institute”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
  • CPO AcceleratorCoinedcourse · Melissa Perri

    “i more recently started cpo accelerator which is a program to help vps and heads of product”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • Escaping the Build TrapCoinedbook · Melissa Perri

    “i am writing another book called product operations after writing escaping the bill trap”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • Product OperationsCoinedbook · Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles

    “i am writing another book called product operations”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • Insight Venture PartnersMentionscompany

    “i had a whole partnership with insight venture partners where we go in and play the interim cpo role”

    ▶ Watch at ~6:30approx.
  • GitHubMentionssoftware · GitHub

    “make log makes it easy to see what's happening across tools like jira linear asana and github”

    ▶ Watch at ~26:30approx.
  • JiraMentionssoftware · Atlassian

    “make log makes it easy to see what's happening across tools like jira linear asana and github”

    ▶ Watch at ~26:30approx.
  • LinearMentionssoftware · Linear

    “make log makes it easy to see what's happening across tools like jira linear asana and github”

    ▶ Watch at ~26:30approx.
  • AsanaMentionssoftware · Asana, Inc.

    “make log makes it easy to see what's happening across tools like jira linear asana and github”

    ▶ Watch at ~26:30approx.
  • MakelogRecommendscompany · Makelog

    “try make log for free today just visit make log dot com slash lenny to get started”

    ▶ Watch at ~27:00approx.
  • SlackMentionssoftware · Slack Technologies

    “including within your app on slack over email and even on twitter”

    ▶ Watch at ~27:00approx.
  • Google DocsUsessoftware · Google

    “we usually throw into google docs or a wiki or something like that link them all together”

    ▶ Watch at ~32:30approx.
  • NetflixMentionscompany · Netflix

    “i analyzed how other companies did it so i was like how did netflix do their strategy”

    ▶ Watch at ~43:00approx.
  • Product OperationsMentionsbook · Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles

    “you touched on product operations which you know is your the book that you're working on now”

    ▶ Watch at ~43:30approx.
  • Agile ManifestoMentionsother

    “i went down like a rabbit hole interviewing everybody who wrote the agile manifesto and did scrum”

    ▶ Watch at ~50:00approx.
  • ScrumMentionsother · Ken Schwaber and Jeff Sutherland

    “i try to tell teams that you know started with scrum or started with some of these more dogmatic processes”

    ▶ Watch at ~51:30approx.
  • TwitterUseswebsite · Twitter

    “i am on twitter all the time at lizzie jean”

    ▶ Watch at ~52:00approx.
  • Product Thinking PodcastCoinedpodcast · Melissa Perri

    “you can also submit questions if you have questions to me at the product thinking podcast”

    ▶ Watch at ~52:30approx.link ↗
  • Dear MelissaMentionswebsite · Melissa Perri

    “if you go to producthinkingpodcast.com or dearmelissa.com i take questions there all the time”

    ▶ Watch at ~52:30approx.link ↗
  • MelissaPerri.comMentionswebsite · Melissa Perri

    “my website melissa perry.com has all my other information if anybody needs to get in touch”

    ▶ Watch at ~53:00approx.link ↗
  • Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky

    “you can also learn more at lennyspodcast.com i'll see you in the next episode”

    ▶ Watch at ~53:30approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 3

Hot Take00:00

Most Product Org Problems Are Strategy, Not Training

Melissa Perri argues that companies usually misdiagnose their product problems as a training gap. In 99% of cases, the real issue is how they set goals and deploy strategy. Even well-trained people fail when they have no context on what to work toward.

  • Companies think training their people will fix product issues
  • 99% of the time the real problem is goal-setting and strategy deployment
  • Trained people are useless without context on what to work toward
  • Fixing this is a holistic transformation, not a training course

“i've met a lot of organizations that think most of their issues are in the training of their people and 99 of the time i…”

Melissa Perri · 00:00
#strategy#product-management#org-design
Hot Take18:00

A Consultant Can't Fix You If You Won't Take Action

Perri is blunt about the limits of hiring outside help. Consultants and interim CPOs can guide decisions, but nothing changes unless the company listens and is willing to act, sometimes drastically. She turns away companies that aren't ready to make hard changes to people and strategy.

  • You can hire a consultant, but if you don't listen nothing changes
  • Companies can't just tell a consultant to 'do your job' for them
  • You must be ready to take action, sometimes changing people and reorganizing
  • Interim CPO help is temporary unless you convert them full-time

“so you can hire a consultant but if you don't listen to the consultant nothing's going to change”

Melissa Perri · 18:00

“consultants can only help as well when you're willing to take action”

Melissa Perri · 20:00
#consulting#leadership#change-management
Hot Take35:00

Bring in a Designer and You Instantly Look Smarter

Lenny and Perri riff on how much a designer improves any vision or board presentation. Pairing writing with visuals and prototypes gets people aligned fast, especially visually-oriented executives, and simply makes the whole idea land better.

  • A designer's visuals make presentations suddenly 'make sense'
  • Visual pieces and mocked-up prototypes align people fast on a vision
  • Many executives are visually oriented and respond to diagrams over words
  • Combine a presentation with writing for the most powerful effect

“i find that anytime i have a designer helping me with anything like that i always look so much smarter because they made it look…”

Lenny Rachitsky · 35:00
#vision#design#communication

Explainer· 6

Explainer09:30

The Signs It's Time to Hire a Chief Product Officer

Perri explains how to tell when a company needs a CPO. The clearest signal is executives and boards not knowing what's happening in product or whether goals are being hit. She also checks whether teams' work ladders up into a coherent strategy and whether product managers are getting the leadership they need.

  • Executives or the board saying they don't know what's going on in product is a red flag
  • Test it by asking every team what they're working on and why, then see if it ladders up
  • Disconnected work signals no one is formulating and deploying strategy
  • Frustrated great PMs, trouble hiring PMs, and lots of untrained juniors all signal a leadership gap

“if your executives and your board are telling you that the person who's communicating those things to them are usually not chief product officer level…”

Melissa Perri · 10:30
#cpo#hiring#leadership#strategy
Explainer12:30

The Revenue and Portfolio Thresholds for a CPO

Perri gives concrete junction points for bringing on a CPO. Around $20-30M ARR in a high-growth company, and when you move from single to multi-product or expand into new geographies, is when the role becomes necessary. By headcount it tends to land around seven to eight product managers, though scope matters more than the number.

  • Above $10M ARR, CPOs usually come on around $20-30M in a high-growth company
  • A more complex, multi-product portfolio is the bigger signal than any single number
  • Geographic expansion, major pivots, and mergers all point to needing a CPO
  • By headcount it's roughly seven to eight PMs, but depends on the rest of the team

“if you're going above 10 million dollars in ar it's usually when you hit around 20 to 30 you start to bring on a cpo…”

Melissa Perri · 12:30
#cpo#hiring#scaling
Explainer14:30

The Difference Between a Head of Product and a CPO

Perri distinguishes a VP/head of product from a chief product officer. A head of product is a functional leader who runs processes, roadmaps, and trains PMs. A CPO adds executive skills: understanding financials deeply, projecting roadmap to revenue for the board, and overseeing functions beyond product.

  • VP and head of product are interchangeable functional leaders over product management
  • They implement processes, pull together roadmaps, and train lower-level PMs
  • A CPO understands financials deeply and gets from roadmap to revenue projections
  • CPOs are executive navigators who can oversee design, analytics, sometimes engineering

“chief product officers have to deeply understand how to get from you know roadmap to revenue and how to analyze those things and put it…”

Melissa Perri · 15:00
#cpo#leadership#product-management
Explainer21:30

The Signs Your Team Doesn't Actually Have a Strategy

Perri describes what a strategy-less org looks like: teams grinding 80-hour weeks and shipping constantly while none of the metrics move. Executives see product as a black box. The tell is a 'missing middle' — teams know their tasks, but no one can connect that work up to the company's vision and objectives.

  • Teams work like dogs, 80-hour weeks, releasing constantly, but metrics don't move
  • Executives treat product and tech as a black box
  • The 'missing middle' is the gap between team tasks and business objectives
  • Often a strategy exists but only in people's heads, never written down

“teams are all working like dogs like they're they're working 80 hours a week i see this all the time”

Melissa Perri · 22:00

“none of the metrics are moving so the executive team is going what is happening product is a black box tex tech is a black…”

Melissa Perri · 22:00
#strategy#product-management#execution
Explainer36:00

What Actually Makes a Good Product Vision

Perri lays out her tests for a strong vision. It should be concrete enough to picture, lofty and far enough away that you can't hit it with one feature, and clearly different from competitors — explaining why you're better, not just that you are. The best visions also state explicitly what you won't do.

  • A vision must be concrete enough to picture in your head, not fluffy
  • It should be lofty and far off, not something you've already achieved
  • It has to say how you're different and why you're better, not just 'the best'
  • Great visions also declare what you don't want to do

“one a vision should be concrete enough where people can picture what it will be in their head it can't be a fluffy like be…”

Melissa Perri · 36:00

“i think good visions also say what you don't want to do i love i love reading a vision that's like we're not going to…”

Melissa Perri · 38:00
#vision#strategy#differentiation
Explainer44:00

What Product Operations Is and Why It Emerged

Perri previews her book on product operations, born from watching product management break down at scale — inconsistent roadmaps, no career ladders, wrong people in meetings, customers pestered by multiple teams. Product ops standardizes outputs and check-ins across three parts: internal data and insights, customer/market research, and process cadences.

  • Product management at scale breaks: mismatched roadmaps, no ladders, redundant customer outreach
  • Product ops standardizes outputs and check-ins to keep strategy on track
  • Part one is internal data and insights that surface strategy progress and OKRs
  • Part two is customer and market research; part three is standardized strategy cadences

“product management at scale is really hard and that's where product operations comes in”

Melissa Perri · 45:00
#product-operations#scaling#process

Story· 2

Story23:30

'Backbone of Healthcare' Is a Tagline, Not a Vision

Perri recounts asking a healthcare company's executive team for their vision. They answered 'to be the backbone of healthcare' but nobody could explain what it meant. Her point: a vision has to be concrete enough to picture and to say what you will and won't do, not a fluffy slogan.

  • An executive team's vision was 'be the backbone of healthcare'
  • No one could elaborate on what that actually meant
  • A slogan is a tagline, not a vision
  • A real vision names who you'll become and what you're doing versus not doing

“i once asked all the executive team at a healthcare company like what's the”

Melissa Perri · 23:30

“they said to be the backbone of healthcare i said what does that mean and they couldn't elaborate nobody could elaborate on that and i…”

Melissa Perri · 24:00
#vision#strategy#leadership
Story46:30

350 PMs Asking the Same Hospital the Same Question

At Athenahealth, Perri managed 350 product managers who were unknowingly interviewing the same hospital contacts over and over. The same question got asked ten times by ten different teams. It became the origin of scaling user research through product ops — not centralizing it, but making it efficient so teams can still talk to customers without burning them out.

  • Athenahealth had 350 product managers doing one-off customer interviews
  • The same people were asked the same question 10 times by 10 teams
  • The goal wasn't to take research away but to make it scalable and efficient
  • Product ops standardizes and records research so insights can be reused

“we've asked these people now the same question 10 times from 10 different teams like how do we make sure that those things don't happen”

Melissa Perri · 47:00
#user-research#product-operations#scaling

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway38:30

Get Better at Strategy by Talking to People and Chasing Data

Perri's advice for becoming more strategic isn't books or an MBA — it's reps. Imagine you're the CPO and act on it, talk to leaders about their process, and pull data and win/loss insight from other departments like sales. Strategy ultimately means making the best informed choice and being willing to correct course.

  • Imagine what you'd do as CPO even without the title to get reps
  • Ask leaders directly how they arrived at their priorities and process
  • Talk to sales and other departments for market and win/loss knowledge
  • You can't be 100% certain — make the best informed choice and pivot if wrong

“you got to make a choice and i think that's the hardest part part for some people they're like i want to be 100 certain…”

Melissa Perri · 42:00
#strategy#career#product-management
Takeaway49:00

Beat PM Info Overload by Learning Through Execution

Faced with endless PM books, newsletters, and advice, Perri says the best learning comes from doing the job, then analyzing what's working and deep-diving only the specific gaps you find. She also urges dropping dogmatic processes like rigid Scrum when they don't serve you — everything is meant to be iterated and adapted.

  • You learn the most from execution, not from consuming more content
  • Do the job, analyze what's working, then deep-dive the specific weak areas
  • Perri once interviewed the Agile Manifesto authors to fix an 8,000-user-story problem
  • If a process like Scrum doesn't serve you, change it — everything is meant to be adapted

“the way that you're going to learn the most usually is from execution”

Melissa Perri · 49:30

“if it doesn't serve you move on change it right everything's meant to be iterated on everything's meant to be adapted if it does not…”

Melissa Perri · 51:30
#career#learning#agile#product-management