Fareed Mosavat (Reforge, Slack, Instacart, Zynga, Pixar)23 October 2022

How to build trust and grow as a product leader

5Frameworks

11Insights

Episode overview

Fareed Mosavat explains that product managers improve primarily through repeated execution on real products, then by generalizing and communicating what they learn. He describes how curiosity, organizational impact, and sponsorship create the trust required for larger opportunities. The conversation also covers the difficult transition from individual contributor to manager, including delegation, portfolio leadership, and taking ownership of resources and business outcomes. It closes with the rise, benefits, and risks of advisory and portfolio-based careers for experienced operators.

Key ideas

Product-management ability develops through a loop of execution, generalization, communication, and progressively larger opportunities.
Training, mentorship, courses, reading, and podcasts can accelerate learning, but they cannot replace repeated work on real customer problems.
Career sponsorship differs from mentorship: sponsors trust strong performers with consequential problems and advocate for broader responsibility.
Product managers can build trust by understanding priorities two organizational levels above and implementation details two levels below, while remaining curious about adjacent teams.
New managers must shift from doer to editor, delegate meaningful work, tailor their involvement to each team member, and avoid the manager death spiral.
Product leaders must balance four kinds of work: features, growth, product-market-fit expansion, and scaling work such as technical reliability or trust and safety.
At leadership level, owning the outcome includes defining the needed people and cross-functional support instead of treating assigned resources as a fixed constraint.
Experienced operators can build advisory careers by developing distinctive specific knowledge, combining depth with breadth, and establishing credibility through meaningful operating experience.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Entrepreneurship4 steps

Building Toward a Portfolio Career

Engineer a narrow-but-deep expertise plus branded credibility so you can advise many companies, not one.

Read →

Leadership3 steps

Crossing the Product Leader Canyon

Escape the manager death spiral by shifting from doer to editor and owning outcomes over output.

Read →

Influence4 steps

Sponsorship Over Mentorship

Career inflection comes not from a coach but from a sponsor who trusts you with a bigger problem.

Read →

Strategy4 steps

The Four Types of Product Work

Feature, growth, PMF-expansion, and scaling work — the portfolio a product leader must learn to balance.

Read →

Leadership4 steps

The Product Career Learning Loop

A four-stage loop — execute, generalize, communicate, scale — that compounds a PM's ability over a career.

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 15

Fareed MosavatMentionsChief Development Officer at Reforge; formerly a product leader at Slack, Instacart, RunKeeper, Zynga, and an engineer at Pixar.
“Fareed most of it is the chief development officer at reforge where he's been for over two and a half years”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
Shreyas DoshiMentionsHe reflects on roughly 20 years in product work and leadership roles at Google, Twitter, and Stripe.
“including resources from many guests on this podcast including shreyas Gokul and shashir the CEO of Coda”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
Gokul RajaramMentionsa tactic gokule shared on this podcast about one of his best tricks
“including resources from many guests on this podcast including shreyas Gokul and shashir the CEO of Coda”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
Shishir MehrotraMentionsshashir marocha is the co-founder and ceo of koda before starting koda shashir led the youtube product engineering and design teams
“including resources from many guests on this podcast including shreyas Gokul and shashir the CEO of Coda”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
John CutlerMentionsI talked to John Cuddler actually and he gave me this framework that is like completely stuck in my mind
“I'm excited to chat with my friend John Cutler from podcast sponsor amplitude”
▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
Fareed MosavatMentionsChief Development Officer at Reforge; formerly a product leader at Slack, Instacart, RunKeeper, Zynga, and an engineer at Pixar.
“hi I'm Fareed mosavat I live in Berkeley California with my wonderful wife and two children”
▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter
“thanks for having me Lenny I'm super excited to be here”
▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
Steve JobsMentionsSteve Jobs is just uh the bar he held for the company and for technical talent and for excellence was not uh wavering.
“if I connect the dots backwards to the Steve jobsism this would be the beginning of how I got interested”
▶ Watch at ~6:30approx.
Elena VernaMentionsElena Vernon who's been on the podcast is just like a huge proponent of everyone will be product LED self-serve eventually
“the guests that you've had on the podcast like Elena or Adam Fishman or Casey who plug into our system”
▶ Watch at ~10:00approx.
Adam FishmanMentionsI've been a chief product officer and VP of growth and product at a bunch of different companies imperfect Foods patreon Lyft
“the guests that you've had on the podcast like Elena or Adam Fishman or Casey who plug into our system”
▶ Watch at ~10:00approx.
Naval RavikantCoinedeventually I met folks like Naval ravikot and Sam Altman and Brian Armstrong and they recommended me around
“there's a idea that Naval ravacon talked about on Twitter and then blog posts a long time ago this concept of specific knowledge”
▶ Watch at ~15:00approx.
Nabeel HyattMentionsFormer CEO of Conduit Labs and later a venture capitalist; a career sponsor for Fareed.
“one was CEO of that startup who's now a venture capitalist named Nabil Hyatt”
▶ Watch at ~25:00approx.
Merci GraceMentionsA sponsor for Fareed during his time at Slack.
“one of those was mercy and Grace who I think has been on your pod and it was a wonderful sponsor for me”
▶ Watch at ~26:00approx.
April UnderwoodMentionsIdentified as Slack's Chief Product Officer, who expanded Fareed's responsibilities.
“a bronderwood who's the CPO said it seems like you have a handle on this”
▶ Watch at ~26:00approx.
Casey WintersCoinedwho's had the most influence on you in your career well we mentioned him before so I gotta bring him back up Casey Winters
“the way I think about product work and Casey Winters and I worked on this framework together”
▶ Watch at ~41:00approx.

Resources · 31

CodaUsessoftware · Coda
“I actually use Coda every single day it's my home base for organizing my newsletter writing”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
SquareUsescompany · Block, Inc.
“some of the best teams out there like Pinterest Spotify square and Uber use Coda to run effectively”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
UberUsescompany · Uber
“some of the best teams out there like Pinterest Spotify square and Uber use Coda to run effectively”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
SpotifyUsessoftware · Spotify
“some of the best teams out there like Pinterest Spotify square and Uber use Coda to run effectively”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
PinterestUsescompany · Pinterest
“some of the best teams out there like Pinterest Spotify square and Uber use Coda to run effectively”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
CodaRecommendssoftware · Coda
“make your life better and start using Coda”
▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
AmplitudeMentionssoftware · Amplitude
“we've always thought of amplitude as being about supporting the full product Loop”
▶ Watch at ~3:00approx.
AmplitudeRecommendssoftware · Amplitude
“head to amplitude.com to get started”
▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
ReforgeMentionscompany · Brian Balfour
“today I am the chief development officer at reforge where I help run all of our content teams”
▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
SlackMentionssoftware · Slack Technologies
“I spent almost four years as the Director of product for a team called life cycle it's lack”
▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
RunkeeperMentionsproduct
“I was VP of product at a company called RunKeeper before that in Boston health and fitness Tracking Company”
▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
InstacartMentionscompany · Apoorva Mehta, Max Mullen, and Brandon Leonardo
“I built one of the first growth teams at instacart for about a year and a half”
▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
ZyngaMentionscompany · Mark Pincus
“I was a general manager at Zynga”
▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
Pixar Animation StudiosMentionscompany
“started my career with almost seven years at Pixar Animation Studios working on visual effects software tools and other Creative Tech”
▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
Finding NemoMentionsfilm · Pixar Animation Studios
“I am credited on Finding Nemo cars Wally and up”
▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
CarsMentionsfilm · Pixar Animation Studios
“I am credited on Finding Nemo cars Wally and up”
▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
WALL-EMentionsfilm · Pixar Animation Studios
“I am credited on Finding Nemo cars Wally and up”
▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
UpMentionsfilm · Pixar Animation Studios
“I am credited on Finding Nemo cars Wally and up”
▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
TwitterMentionswebsite · Twitter
“there's a idea that Naval ravacon talked about on Twitter and then blog posts a long time ago”
▶ Watch at ~15:00approx.
Stanford UniversityMentionsplace
“except for maybe being like a Stanford or Harvard grad top tier School grad in CS”
▶ Watch at ~15:30approx.
Harvard UniversityMentionsplace
“except for maybe being like a Stanford or Harvard grad top tier School grad in CS”
▶ Watch at ~15:30approx.
Google Associate Product Manager ProgramMentionscourse · Google
“top tier School grad in CS with an internship goes to Google to do an APM program”
▶ Watch at ~16:00approx.
GoogleMentionscompany · Google
“top tier School grad in CS with an internship goes to Google to do an APM program”
▶ Watch at ~16:00approx.
Conduit LabsMentionscompany
“it was called conduit Labs okay it's a game company”
▶ Watch at ~25:30approx.
VantaMentionssoftware · Christina Cacioppo
“over 3 000 fast growing companies use vanta to automate up to 90 of the work involved with sock 2”
▶ Watch at ~33:00approx.
The Product Leader CanyonCoinednewsletter · Fareed Mosavat
“you have this really epic post that I think you call the product leader Canyon”
▶ Watch at ~33:30approx.
VantaRecommendssoftware · Christina Cacioppo
“get started today so I know something you spend a lot of time thinking about”
▶ Watch at ~33:30approx.
Product StrategyCoinedcourse · Reforge
“it's all part of our product strategy program at reforge”
▶ Watch at ~41:00approx.
AirbnbMentionscompany · Brian Chesky, Joe Gebbia, and Nathan Blecharczyk
“there are a lot of problems that come up at Airbnb just because instead of having 10 hosts you have 10 000 hosts”
▶ Watch at ~42:30approx.
Apple PodcastsRecommendssoftware · Apple Inc.
“you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcast Spotify or your favorite podcast app”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:30approx.
Lenny's Podcast websiteRecommendswebsite · Lenny Rachitsky
“you can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com”
▶ Watch at ~1:05:00approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster55:00

Why 'There's No Money in Writing' Is Wrong

Fareed reframes the belief that there's no money in writing. The reason people can now make a living is specific knowledge: after enough reps you become genuinely one of the few best in the world at a narrow topic. Companies too early to hire that person full-time will pay to access it in short, high-leverage bursts.

The value isn't the writing itself; it's the narrow, hard-won specific knowledge
Enough reps make you one of the five best in the world at a focused area
Early companies can't hire that person full-time but will pay for concentrated help
A newsletter succeeds because it's a specific topic with unique experience behind it

“my wife's always like there's no money in writing what are you doing”
Fareed Mosavat · 55:00

“just narrow enough that I know I'm I'm one of the five best in the world”
Fareed Mosavat · 56:00

#career#expertise#creator-economy

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take00:00

You Can't Fake Your Way to Great PM Skills

Fareed argues product management can't be learned through homework, exercises, or courses alone. The real acceleration comes from doing the work on real products, with real customers and real data, over and over. Training, mentorship, and reading are only a layer on top of execution.

There is no fake or practice version of PM work that builds real skill
You get better only by working on real products with real customers and data
Training, mentorship, and reading are a layer on top of execution, not a substitute
The core requirement is executing and delivering great products repeatedly

“you can't do homework you can't do exercises you can't do fake stuff you have to work on real products that real companies with real…”
Fareed Mosavat · 00:00

#product-management#career#learning

Explainer· 2

Explainer14:30

Why Product Management Is So Hard to Get Better At

Fareed explains that unlike engineering, PM has no clear pre-training that gives you baseline competence, and no reliable path to break in. So much of the job is what Naval calls 'specific knowledge' that can only be gathered by doing the work, which is why you can't tell if a PM will be great until they start.

There is no pre-training that gives a baseline like a CS degree does for engineers
PM relies on 'specific knowledge' that can only be gained by doing the work
Breaking in and landing a first PM role is uniquely difficult with no linear path
Company training makes you good at PM there, but generalizing across products is on you

“there's no clear obvious pre-training you can do that gives you like a baseline set of understanding that you can use to be a product…”
Fareed Mosavat · 14:30

“this concept of specific knowledge that can only be gathered by actually doing the work”
Fareed Mosavat · 15:00

#product-management#career#hiring

Explainer51:30

The Rise of the Fractional, Portfolio Career

Fareed describes a growing trend of senior operators diversifying their impact, taking on advising, angel investing, newsletters, and fractional head-of-growth or head-of-product roles instead of a single full-time job. They're drawn to the flexibility, the non-linear upside, and the portfolio approach to time, energy, and equity.

Senior leaders increasingly work across many companies instead of one full-time role
Formats span newsletters, podcasts, full-time advising, and fractional exec roles
The appeal is flexibility plus non-linear upside versus equity in one company
In-demand leaders are constantly recruited, making a single big bet feel risky

“they love it because of the flexibility that it creates for them they love it because of the high upside and sort of like non-linearity…”
Fareed Mosavat · 51:30

#career#advising#fractional-work

Story· 2

Story07:30

The Pixar Lesson: It Doesn't Matter What's Real

Fareed spent nearly seven years at Pixar working on effects and 3D tools. His biggest lesson: it doesn't matter whether the physics behind an effect is technically real, only what appears on screen and the emotion it creates. He applies the same thinking to product, where the strategy doc is just an input to the end experience for customers.

At Pixar, budging the numbers to make something look right is the correct call
The technical work is only a means to the end experience and emotion
In product, the strategy doc is an input, not the goal
What matters is helping people solve actual problems, not internal elegance

“it doesn't actually matter what's real it matters what you see on the screen it matters the emotion that it creates the story that it…”
Fareed Mosavat · 07:30

#pixar#product-craft#storytelling

Story20:30

When More Onboarding Friction Actually Helps

At Instacart, Fareed's team tested onboarding flows, comparing the slimmest lowest-friction path against a deliberately long one with many setup steps. The generalization: for products with a high bar to activation, more setup and 'good friction' can help customers succeed, while high-intent products may benefit from lower friction.

The team A/B-tested a minimal-friction onboarding against a long, high-friction one
For products with a high activation bar, good friction can help users succeed
High-intent, simple-action products may do better with lower friction
The lesson is a hypothesis about how it generalizes, tested against the real world

“four products that have a high bar to activation sometimes more setup and higher friction good friction could actually help those customers be successful”
Fareed Mosavat · 21:00

#growth#onboarding#activation

Takeaway· 5

Takeaway24:30

Sponsorship, Not Mentorship, Drives Career Growth

Fareed says the biggest inflections in his career came from sponsors, not mentors. His growth was unlocked when someone with power deeply trusted him with a bigger problem, from a startup CEO to leaders at Slack. You earn that trust by doing great work and communicating it well.

Sponsors go to bat for you and hand you bigger opportunities, unlike day-to-day mentors
Scaling opportunities usually requires someone outside to notice your work
Fareed's career jumps came from leaders who trusted him with big problems
You create the luck by being good at communicating and solving hard problems

“I think of this as sponsorship not mentorship”
Fareed Mosavat · 24:30

#career#leadership#trust

Takeaway37:00

New Managers Must Shift From Doer to Editor

The manager death spiral happens when a promoted IC keeps the most interesting work and hands the team the scraps, becoming overworked while blocking everyone. Fareed's fix: shift from doer to editor, from doing the work to making the work better. Trust people, decide the highest-leverage input per person, and think in terms of ROI.

The death spiral: keep the best projects, hand out the least interesting work, overwork yourself
Shift from 'my job is to do the work' to 'my job is to make the work better'
Match your input to each person's expertise level, from directive to letting them run
Think about the least work you can do to make the output as good as possible

“you have to shift from doer to editor is the way I think about it”
Fareed Mosavat · 37:30

#management#leadership#delegation

Takeaway38:30

Leaders Own the Outcome and Marshal Resources

A common new-leader mistake is treating a problem the way an IC would, delivering what's possible with the resources you're handed and then blaming a thin team for limited impact. Fareed says leaders own the business outcome and must propose the resources needed, marshalling people both inside and across the org rather than being a victim of the circumstances.

An IC delivers value with the resources they have; a leader proposes the resources needed
Owning the outcome means defining solutions and naming what you need from the org
Making the resource case is baseline at the leadership level, not extra credit
Fareed admits he repeatedly made this mistake, staying a victim of circumstances

“it's your job to Marshall resources both inside your org and across your organization”
Fareed Mosavat · 39:30

“you like find yourself victim of the circumstances instead of owning the situation”
Fareed Mosavat · 48:00

#leadership#management#ownership

Takeaway57:30

The Hidden Downsides of Going Independent

Fareed is candid about the costs of the advisory life: no health insurance, no paid time off, no 401K matching, and inventing your own PTO and parental leave. Longevity is also uncertain as you drift from full-time operating experience, and you're constantly doing sales and BD to line up the next client, which is why he personally still prefers an anchor role.

No health insurance, no time off, no 401K matching; you fund and invent it all yourself
Longevity is unclear as you get further from real operating experience
You must constantly sell and do BD to find the next company
Fareed keeps a main anchor role because he dislikes the constant selling

“I get no health insurance benefits I get no time off I get no 401K matching none of that”
Fareed Mosavat · 57:30

“you're constantly having to do sales and BD as an advisor”
Fareed Mosavat · 59:30

#career#advising#independence

Takeaway1:02:00

Where You Work Matters More Than You Think

Advising folks who want to eventually go independent, Fareed says to work at great places. When a company is fundamentally working and the tide is rising, there are more opportunities to do deep, meaningful work. And when you later have to sell your experience, recognizable names like Slack or Airbnb do a lot of the explaining for you.

Work at places that are fundamentally working, where the rising tide creates opportunity
It's easier to do great, deep work when the company is succeeding
Recognizable employer names make selling your experience far easier later
You don't have to explain what Slack or Airbnb is when pitching yourself

“where you worked matters to people”
Fareed Mosavat · 1:02:00

“it's a lot easier to sell experience of places people have heard of than places nobody's heard of”
Fareed Mosavat · 1:02:30

#career#reputation#advising

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

Building Toward a Portfolio Career

Crossing the Product Leader Canyon

Sponsorship Over Mentorship

The Four Types of Product Work

The Product Career Learning Loop

People & resources mentioned

People · 15

Resources · 31

Insights & moments

⚡Myth Buster· 1

Why 'There's No Money in Writing' Is Wrong

◆Hot Take· 1

You Can't Fake Your Way to Great PM Skills

✶Explainer· 2

Why Product Management Is So Hard to Get Better At

The Rise of the Fractional, Portfolio Career

❝Story· 2

The Pixar Lesson: It Doesn't Matter What's Real

When More Onboarding Friction Actually Helps

▲Takeaway· 5

Sponsorship, Not Mentorship, Drives Career Growth

New Managers Must Shift From Doer to Editor

Leaders Own the Outcome and Marshal Resources

The Hidden Downsides of Going Independent

Where You Work Matters More Than You Think

Myth Buster· 1

Hot Take· 1

Explainer· 2

Story· 2

Takeaway· 5