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Dmitry Zlokazov (Head of Product)15 May 2025

How Revolut trains world-class product managers: The “local CEO” model, raw intellect over experience, and a cultural obsession with building wow products

5Frameworks
13Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Leadership4 steps

Hire Raw Intellect Over Experience

Index on raw intellect and unquenched hunger to build, not years of experience or regalia

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Strategy4 steps

Reverse-Engineer-Then-Formalize at Scale

Do one instance deep by hand, reverse-engineer the best process, then codify it into a scalable algorithm

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Leadership4 steps

Selective Deep-Dive Leadership

Instead of skimming 100 projects, go bare-metal deep on the 7-10 that matter most

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Leadership5 steps

The Local CEO Operating Model

Give each product owner a lean cross-functional team and end-to-end ownership, backed by a dual line/functional matrix

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Innovation5 steps

Wow-First MVP

Cut scope to the critical few features, but never compromise quality — so a flop can only mean the idea was wrong

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 4

Hot Take15:30

The Obsession With "Wow" Products That Fintech Neglects

Dmitry names an obsession with building "wow" products as a core ingredient of Revolut's success, calling it the most neglected part of fintech. Beyond making transactions fast and cheap, Revolut invests heavily in look, feel, and reducing friction so customers feel genuinely cared for. He credits this attention to small details for the app being something customers love.

  • An obsession with building "wow" products is a core success driver
  • Aesthetics and feel are the most neglected part of fintech generally
  • Revolut invests beyond speed and cost into look, feel, and reducing clicks
  • The goal is for customers to feel loved and that extra effort was applied
  • Staff build a habit of paying attention to small nuances that make products lovable

“I would probably add an obsession with u building wow product.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 15:30

“We also want people to feel that we we love our customers and we applied extra effort to for the product to look great and…”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 16:30
#product-quality#fintech#design#ux
Hot Take25:00

Revolut Hires Raw Intellect and Hunger Over Experience

While everyone chases experienced professionals, Revolut deliberately values raw intellect and an unquenched hunger to build over years of experience. Dmitry, who has run 400-500 product interviews, observes that experienced hires ramp slowly, may rest on their laurels, and carry inflated expectations and high comp. He favors people who love building, especially tech co-founders and ex-startup builders, even without much domain experience.

  • Revolut values raw intellect and hunger to build over experience
  • Experienced professionals often ramp slowly and sometimes rest on their laurels
  • High comp and inflated expectations compound the risk of senior hires
  • Established-company veterans often lack the urge to change the status quo
  • The best profile Dmitry has seen is a tech co-founder who built things in a startup

“Uh Revolute values way more raw intellect and um this unquenched hunger to build things rather than experience.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 25:00

“sometimes they also take time to adapt to new culture or worse they just rest on their laurels”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 26:00
#hiring#talent#product-management#culture
Hot Take32:30

The Counterintuitive Move: Go Deep on 7-10 of ~100 Projects

Rather than staying high-level across ~100 simultaneous projects, Dmitry picks the seven to ten most customer-impactful ones and goes extremely deep, down to sitting with engineers and reading code. Counterintuitively this works: teams talk to each other, so being scrutinized signals current priorities and creates discipline, pushing every team to execute meticulously in case they're reviewed next.

  • Dmitry personally picks 7-10 of ~100 projects to go deep on, alone
  • Going deep means sitting with engineers at the code-reading level
  • Teams communicate, so scrutiny of one signals company priorities to all
  • The threat of deep review next builds discipline and meticulous quality
  • This scales better than cutting projects down, unlike Airbnb's Chesky approach

“we take maybe seven or 10 projects which are most impactful for customers right now and Um we go super deep into them like really…”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 33:00

“it's counterintuitive, but it works really well”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 33:30
#management#leadership#focus#product-management
Hot Take55:30

If Something Is 99% Done, It's Closer to 0% Than 100%

Dmitry's execution mantra is that great product owners are hands-on, do the most important work themselves, and treat a nearly-finished product with suspicion: 99% done is closer to 0% than 100%. Often the product is technically built, but the last stretch, ensuring customer care, sales, and marketing actually use it fully, is what separates a shipped feature from a useless one no one knows about.

  • Great product owners are hands-on and do the most important things themselves
  • Relentless focus on execution is non-negotiable
  • A product that's 99% done is closer to 0% than 100%
  • The final work is ensuring internal teams actually adopt and use the feature
  • Skipping that leaves a useless feature no one knows about

“if something is 99% done it's closer to 0% rather than 100%.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 56:00

“sometimes the product is built but then product owners are the ones who also you know make sure that for example uh customer care team…”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 56:30
#execution#product-management#leadership#shipping

Explainer· 3

Explainer07:00

Why Revolut Calls Its PMs "Product Owners" (The Local CEO Model)

Revolut deliberately calls its product managers "product owners" to emphasize genuine end-to-end ownership, not a scrum-process title. Product owners are the line managers for their cross-functional team, define the roadmap, contribute to company strategy, and are ultimately responsible for shipping and results. Dmitry prefers the framing "local CEO" over "mini CEO."

  • "Product owner" is not a scrum term at Revolut; it signals real ownership
  • Product owners are end-to-end responsible for their product, business area, and customers
  • They act as line managers while functional managers govern how things get built
  • Dmitry frames the role as a "local CEO" rather than "mini CEO"

“Well, I I prefer say local co local.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 08:30
#product-management#ownership#org-design#revolut
Explainer09:30

Revolut's Three Types of Product Owners (And Why They're 90% the Same)

Revolut runs three product owner specializations: UX product owners (consumer-facing, taste-driven), technical product owners (often former engineers who go deepest on details), and the increasingly important data science product owners (former data scientists). Dmitry argues only 5-15% of the role is specialization-specific, while 85-90% is common across all three, so people frequently shift between them.

  • Three specializations: UX, technical (ex-engineers), and data science product owners
  • Data science product owners are becoming increasingly important
  • Only ~5-15% of the job is specialization-specific
  • 85-90% of the skillset is shared: problem-solving, customer empathy, deep detail, business acumen
  • Even UX product owners are expected to go deep enough to sit with engineers and read code

“We actually have three and the third type becomes uh increasingly more important.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 09:30

“what defines the specialization is probably 5 10 15%. While 85 to 90% is common to each one of them”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 11:00
#product-management#hiring#org-design#revolut
Explainer18:30

Revolut's Founders Still Review 100% of Shipped Screens

Every week each team runs a product review where product owners present directly to the CEO and CTO, showing that week's increment and getting steering from founders Nik and Vlad. Dmitry says the founders review 100% of screens that ship, so everything in the app has passed founder scrutiny for edge cases and customer happiness. He ties this to a consistent theme across great products: deeply involved founders.

  • Weekly product reviews put every product owner in front of the CEO and CTO
  • Founders Nik and Vlad remain hands-on down to product details
  • Founders review 100% of shipped screens
  • Extensive scrutiny catches edge cases and nuances before release
  • Deep founder involvement is a recurring trait of incredible products

“every week they have a product reviews with every team uh giving an opportunity to every product owner present directly to CEO and CTO”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 19:00

“essentially founders of the company they still review 100% of screens that have been shipped”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 19:00
#leadership#founders#product-review#revolut

Story· 2

Story05:00

How Revolut Started: The Multicurrency Card That Killed FX Fees

Dmitry explains why Revolut exists by way of Europe's fragmented banking landscape, where crossing borders means switching between 25 different currencies and eating steep bank fees and bad exchange rates. Revolut launched as a multicurrency card that saved travelers real money, and customers loved not just the savings but the transparency and simplicity. That trust let Revolut roll out product after product.

  • Europe uses ~25 different currencies and cross-border spending incurred exorbitant bank fees and poor FX rates
  • Revolut launched as a multicurrency card that saved users 50-100 euros per trip
  • Customers valued the transparency and simplicity as much as the savings
  • That trust let Revolut expand into P2P transfers, crypto, credit, and savings

“And that's when Revolute launched as a multicurrency uh card. And people loved it.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 05:30

“They they loved that Revolute was saving them 50 or 100 euros, but even more so they loved the transparency and simplicity of the product.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 05:30
#revolut#fintech#origin-story#product
Story59:30

The Cinema-Ticket Hardware Startup That Ran Out of Money

In his "fail corner," Dmitry recounts a university-era startup around 2010, before smartphones, that let people buy cinema tickets online to skip the line. He and friends built an end-to-end system including custom stainless-steel scanning hardware and even hacked the SMS standard to send QR codes to Nokia phones. They spent all their investment on hardware, adoption grew too slowly, and they ran out of money, teaching him to stay lean and validate before scaling.

  • Around 2010, pre-smartphone, they built online cinema-ticket buying to skip the line
  • They built custom stainless-steel scanning devices and hacked SMS to send QR codes
  • All the investment went into hardware with no proven business model
  • Customer adoption was too slow because people weren't ready for it
  • They ran out of money and closed; the lesson was to stay lean and validate before scaling
  • Dmitry has avoided working with hardware ever since

“we had to close it because we simply ran out of money because we spent all of it on on this on this hardware without…”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 1:01:30

“You need to stay lean. You need to validate things before you scale them.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 1:02:00
#startups#failure#hardware#lessons-learned

Tool· 2

Tool1:04:00

Dmitry's Book Picks: "The Hard Thing About Hard Things" and "Build"

In the lightning round, Dmitry names the two books he recommends most. "The Hard Thing About Hard Things" by Ben Horowitz he recommends to product managers because being a great PM means striving to be a great CEO, and it stresses systematic, scalable solutions and the honesty of grinding. "Build" by Tony Fadell resonated more recently, especially given his own respect for how hard hardware is.

  • "The Hard Thing About Hard Things" by Ben Horowitz is his most-recommended PM book
  • It stresses that great PMs should strive to be great CEOs
  • It emphasizes systematic, scalable solutions and the honesty of grinding
  • "Build" by Tony Fadell inspired him more recently
  • Fadell's builder principles resonate with Dmitry, who sees himself as a builder not a disruptor

“Uh, The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Harovitz.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 1:04:00

“I I read it more recently uh built by Tony Fidel.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 1:05:00
#books#recommendations#product-management#leadership
Tool1:06:00

The AI Agent Dmitry Vibe-Coded a Vocabulary App With

Asked for a favorite recently discovered product, Dmitry names Manus, the AI agent, saying he was mesmerized by how autonomous and smooth it is. He spent a few hours vibe coding and built a JavaScript app that sends him a rare English word to learn each day, which actually worked and amazed him. The word he learned that day was "ineffable."

  • Dmitry's favorite recent product is Manus, the AI agent
  • He was impressed and mesmerized by how autonomous and smooth it is
  • He spent a few hours vibe coding with it
  • He built a JavaScript app that sends him a rare English word to learn daily
  • The app worked; a word he learned was "ineffable"

“Manos is a is a great thing. The AI agent.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 1:06:00

“I created this JavaScript app that uh sends me a rare English word every day to learn and remember and it like it's it worked”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 1:06:30
#ai#tools#product#vibe-coding

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway23:30

Why You Should Never Delegate Talking to Customers

Dmitry insists on a direct communication channel to customers rather than delegating research, because handing it off returns a refined, filtered version that loses the emotional nuance of how people describe their problems. Revolut has an advantage here: with 50M+ users and staff who are power users themselves, feedback is easy to get, and they built tools to survey and interview panels in a few clicks.

  • Delegating customer research returns a filtered, refined version that loses nuance
  • The emotions and specifics of how customers describe problems get lost when handed off
  • Dmitry is a strong believer in a direct communication channel to customers
  • Revolut's 50M+ user base and power-user staff make feedback easy to gather
  • Built-in tools let product owners survey or interview user panels in a few clicks

“when you delegate such an important thing as as customer research and collecting their feedback to someone, you will get uh refined the filtered version.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 23:30

“So I'm a strong believer that it's very important to have direct uh communication channel to to to customers.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 24:00
#customer-research#product-management#user-feedback
Takeaway46:30

Ship Fast to a Small Base, But Never Ship a Scrappy MVP

For new products, Revolut assembles a small lean team to build a first version very quickly for feedback, but refuses to scale before the product is polished. Dmitry argues a scrappy MVP creates confusion: if it fails to get traction, you can't tell whether the idea is wrong or the product just sucks. Forcing a "wow" product from the start removes that uncertainty, even if functionality is cut to the most critical features.

  • Build the first version fast for feedback, but don't scale before polishing
  • A scrappy version that fails leaves you unable to diagnose idea vs. execution
  • Forcing a wow product removes the idea-vs-product uncertainty
  • Functionality can be cut to critical features, but quality/UX/aesthetics never
  • Success can then be instantly multiplied across Revolut's 50M customer base

“the main thing here is to build first version very quickly to get feedback but then not scale it before you polish the product.”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 46:30

“when you launch a scrappy version and it's not getting traction how do you know is it because the underlying idea is wrong or maybe…”

Dmitry Zlokazov · 48:00
#product-strategy#mvp#product-launch#quality