Camille Ricketts (Notion, First Round Capital)11 December 2022

How Notion leveraged community to build a $10B business

5Frameworks

15Insights

Episode overview

Lenny Rachitsky interviews Camille Ricketts about the community-led growth and content-marketing systems she helped develop at Notion and First Round Capital. Ricketts explains how Notion cultivated ambassadors, champions, consultants, creators, influencers, and local events while measuring discovery through net-new website visitors. She also argues that content should be treated like a product, with a defined audience, genuine pain points, high editorial quality, and its own content-market fit.

Key ideas

Community-led growth can create ubiquity and trust that help a product move from individual adoption into larger companies.
Products with an “atomic unit of sharing,” such as Notion templates or Figma designs, are especially suited to community-driven growth.
Community programs should begin with organic enthusiasts, listen closely to their goals, offer meaningful access, and grow slowly enough to preserve relationships.
Notion separated consumer ambassadors from customer-company champions while supporting consultants, template creators, influencers, and independent community organizers.
Net-new website visitors served as a practical discovery metric, while influencer referrals and event attendance enabled tighter attribution.
Content strategy should pursue content-market fit by identifying a specific audience, its anxieties and ambitions, and a painkiller-like job the content can perform.
Exceptional editorial content requires substantial preparation, interviewing, writing, and synthesis to rise above the volume of material online.
Founders should communicate in ways that fit their personalities and wait until they have something valuable to say instead of imposing social-media quotas.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Entrepreneurship5 steps

Community as an Economy

Help your fans make a living from your product and their income becomes your distribution

Read →

Marketing5 steps

Content Market Fit

Treat content like a product: pick an audience, find their pain, and ship a painkiller

Read →

Marketing6 steps

The Ambassador Program Blueprint

Recruit the already-vocal, pay them in access not cash, and grow the cohort deliberately slowly

Read →

Marketing4 steps

The Atomic Unit of Sharing Test

Decide whether community-led growth will work for you before spending a dollar on it

Read →

Strategy4 steps

The Community Form-Factor Matrix

A two-by-two that tells you which kind of community to build given your PMF and buyer

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 18

Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter
“Welcome to Lenny's podcast. I'm Lenny”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
Camille RickettsMentionsCamille was the first marketing hire at Notion and long-time head of marketing at Notion.
“Today, my guest is Camille Ricketts. Camille was the first marketing hire at Notion and long-time head of marketing at Notion.”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
Elon MuskMentionsWhether you like him or not, Elon, this is similar to his um if you watch him, he has sets these really ambitious goals
“she sat right next to Elon Musk for about a year”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Ivan ZhaoMentionswhen notion needs to broadcast messages in real time to other collaborators they use a real-time engine that they built for socket io.
“they had invested in Notion really early on, and so I was able to meet Ivan Zhao as a result of that”
▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
Lexi BarnhornMentionsthe influencer marketing efforts that were really being run by this incredible woman, Lexi Barnhorn
“the influencer marketing efforts that were really being run by this incredible woman, Lexi Barnhorn”
▶ Watch at ~15:30approx.
Ben LangMentionsNotion's head of community, Ben Lang, who truly is the mastermind and genius behind so much of this
“Notion's head of community, Ben Lang, who truly is the mastermind and genius behind so much of this”
▶ Watch at ~17:00approx.
Claire ButlerMentionsClaire started at figma while they were still in stealth as their 10th employee and their first ever marketing hire
“Huge kudos to Claire Butler over there who I knew led all of those efforts”
▶ Watch at ~31:00approx.
Jessie Craig SchickmanMentionsJessie Craig Schickman over there has been doing this now for longer than I did
“Jessie Craig Schickman over there has been doing this now for longer than I did”
▶ Watch at ~48:00approx.
Josh KopelmanMentionsJosh Kopelman is the partner there who was just a massive supporter of mine
“Josh Kopelman is the partner there who was just a massive supporter of mine”
▶ Watch at ~49:00approx.
Finn BarnesMentionsIdentified as one of Ivan Zhao’s early investors.
“Finn Barnes on the partnership team”
▶ Watch at ~49:00approx.
Brett BersonMentionsit's first rounds podcast by Brett Baron he interviews a lot of operators
“particularly Brett Berson who was running the platform team”
▶ Watch at ~49:00approx.
Shawn YoungMentionshere's where I'm going to shout out my writing partner at First Round, Shawn Young
“here's where I'm going to shout out my writing partner at First Round, Shawn Young”
▶ Watch at ~54:30approx.
David PierceMentionsDavid Pierce, who I think is one of the best working journalists in tech today, he's at The Verge now
“David Pierce, who I think is one of the best working journalists in tech today, he's at The Verge now”
▶ Watch at ~58:00approx.
April DunfordCoinedApril Dunford was on this podcast and she has this book that she put out recently called the sales pitch
“Obviously Awesome by April Dunford”
▶ Watch at ~1:01:30approx.
Harry StebbingsRecommendsI think I got introduced to you by Harry from the 20 BC
“Harry Stebbings never ceases to amaze me”
▶ Watch at ~1:02:00approx.
Cate BlanchettMentionsit was just incredible to watch this performance from Cate Blanchett
“it was just incredible to watch this performance from Cate Blanchett”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:00approx.
Claire DanesMentionsevery time Claire Danes is on screen, I'm like, I'm riveted
“every time Claire Danes is on screen, I'm like, I'm riveted”
▶ Watch at ~1:03:30approx.
Ben LangRecommendsNotion's head of community, Ben Lang, who truly is the mastermind and genius behind so much of this
“if you want to just Google Ben Lang and the word community or Notion”
▶ Watch at ~1:05:30approx.

Resources · 36

Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky
“Welcome to Lenny's podcast. I'm Lenny”
▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
First Round ReviewCoinedwebsite · First Round Capital
“she launched the First Round Review”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
First Round CapitalMentionscompany
“Prior to that, she was head of content and marketing at First Round Capital”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
KivaMentionscompany
“Camille also did content marketing at Kiva”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
EppoMentionssoftware · Eppo
“This episode is brought to you by Eppo. Eppo is a next-generation A/B testing platform built by Airbnb alums”
▶ Watch at ~2:00approx.
FlatfileMentionssoftware · Flatfile
“check out Flatfile at flatfile.com/lenny”
▶ Watch at ~4:00approx.
The Wall Street JournalMentionswebsite · Dow Jones & Company
“I started off as a journalist at the Wall Street Journal”
▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
Tesla MotorsMentionscompany
“found my way into communications and marketing at Tesla Motors”
▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
NotionUsessoftware · Notion Labs
“I was number 11”
▶ Watch at ~7:30approx.
NotionMentionssoftware · Notion Labs
“last valuation was like $10 billion”
▶ Watch at ~8:00approx.
TwitterUseswebsite · Twitter
“We're suddenly seeing all of these people on Twitter pop up”
▶ Watch at ~10:30approx.
RedditUseswebsite · Steve Huffman, Alexis Ohanian, and Aaron Swartz
“on the Reddit pop up, being like, "Oh my gosh, what am I going to do?"”
▶ Watch at ~10:30approx.
JiraMentionssoftware · Atlassian
“Jira I think or Confluence. And people come back if it's an awesome product.”
▶ Watch at ~11:30approx.
ConfluenceMentionssoftware · Atlassian
“Jira I think or Confluence. And people come back if it's an awesome product.”
▶ Watch at ~11:30approx.
Station FMentionsplace
“relationships with Station F in France, which is the biggest startup campus in Paris”
▶ Watch at ~17:00approx.
CanvaMentionscompany · Melanie Perkins, Cliff Obrecht, and Cameron Adams
“But, the same is true of Figma or Canva”
▶ Watch at ~21:00approx.link ↗
VantaMentionssoftware · Christina Cacioppo
“This episode is brought to you by Vanta, helping you streamline your security compliance to accelerate growth.”
▶ Watch at ~29:30approx.
Stripe AtlasCoinedproduct · Stripe
“when Stripe launched Stripe Atlas”
▶ Watch at ~31:30approx.
FigmaRecommendssoftware · Figma
“they did an amazing job, I think, in a similar vein to Notion”
▶ Watch at ~31:30approx.
SalesforceMentionscompany · Salesforce
“if you talk to anybody who was really early at Salesforce”
▶ Watch at ~36:00approx.
SlackUsessoftware · Slack Technologies
“if you're a paid newsletter subscriber, you get access to the Slack community”
▶ Watch at ~44:30approx.
FacebookUsescompany · Meta
“you end up with Facebook groups”
▶ Watch at ~45:30approx.
SlackUsessoftware · Slack Technologies
“It is in Slack”
▶ Watch at ~46:00approx.
First Round ReviewRecommendswebsite · First Round Capital
“I don't miss it every single time it comes out”
▶ Watch at ~48:00approx.
The VergeMentionswebsite
“he's at The Verge now”
▶ Watch at ~58:00approx.
Product HuntUseswebsite · Ryan Hoover
“the other big thing for Notion was Product Hunt”
▶ Watch at ~59:00approx.
Notion AIMentionssoftware · Notion Labs, Inc.
“Notion AI very recently for them which couldn't be more exciting”
▶ Watch at ~59:30approx.
TárRecommendsfilm
“I went to go see Tár, which I know is going to be like not everybody's cup of tea”
▶ Watch at ~1:02:30approx.
ArcRecommendssoftware · The Browser Company
“the other great love of my life right now is Arc, the browser company”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:00approx.
FigmaUsessoftware · Figma
“I love Figma. I actually use it in my day-to-day life”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:30approx.
ArcUsessoftware · The Browser Company
“within an hour I had made it my default browser”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:30approx.
SuperhumanRecommendssoftware · Superhuman
“Superhuman, couldn't live my life without Superhuman”
▶ Watch at ~1:04:30approx.
GmailUsessoftware · Google
“Whenever I have to go back into Gmail to like set an auto responder”
▶ Watch at ~1:05:00approx.
CronRecommendssoftware
“if anybody isn't using the Cron calendar, which is now part of Notion”
▶ Watch at ~1:05:00approx.
Founders You Should KnowUsesevent
“I've started going to these founders you should know events for anybody who's interested, but FYSK”
▶ Watch at ~1:06:30approx.
Lenny's PodcastMentionspodcast · Lenny Rachitsky
“You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.”
▶ Watch at ~1:07:00approx.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 3

Hot Take18:30

Don't measure community to death at the start

Camille's number-one recommendation for suspected community-driven growth is to not make metrics the be-all-end-all early. Notion didn't measure community concretely until years in, because organic scale was already visible in geographic expansion and survey responses — and cutting off organic fervor over unmeasured ROI is one of the worst mistakes you can make.

Notion didn't measure community concretely until roughly a year before the interview.
Organic signals (where they expanded, how people said they discovered Notion) were enough early on.
Killing organic momentum because you can't yet measure ROI is a serious error.

“one of my number one recommendations for anybody who suspects the community could be a big growth driver is to not make metrics the be-all…”
Camille Ricketts · 18:30

#community#metrics#growth#roi

Hot Take42:30

The contrarian case for growing your community slowly

Camille's contrarian advice is to deliberately not grow a community too big too fast. Notion used a light application process and inducted roughly 20 ambassadors per month so newcomers could be welcomed organically. Ironically, a huge community (e.g. 5,000 members) goes muted because people feel they're addressing an anonymous auditorium.

Notion capped ambassador induction at ~20 people per month to protect the feel.
A light application process just gauged interest, not exclusivity.
Very large communities go quiet — people won't speak into a faceless auditorium.
Lenny saw the same healthy-slow-growth effect in his paid newsletter Slack (~10,000 members).

“if you grow to something like, you know, oh, we have 5,000 ambassadors which feels like really good to say like on a website, the…”
Camille Ricketts · 44:00

#community#growth#contrarian#notion

Hot Take1:00:00

Founders shouldn't set themselves a social-media quota

On how much a founder should tweet, Camille says it comes down to personality and authenticity — lean into what feels natural. A big mistake is giving yourself a quota of scintillating things to post each week; even Notion's main accounts got more traction being reserved and posting only when they had something of value.

Founder social presence should follow personality and what feels authentic.
Setting a posting quota is one of the biggest social-media mistakes.
Notion's accounts saw more traction being reserved and waiting for real value.
Founder styles vary widely — from Elon's direct presence to Ivan Zhao's under-the-radar approach.

“one of the biggest mistakes you can make on social media is giving yourself a quota that you have to hit”
Camille Ricketts · 1:00:30

“We've just seen so much more traction even from like the main Notion accounts when we're a little bit more reserved and we wait until…”
Camille Ricketts · 1:00:30

#social-media#founders#authenticity

Explainer· 4

Explainer13:00

What community-led growth actually means

Camille cuts through the buzz to define community-led growth concretely: it's when your community drives so much ubiquity and name recognition that it de-risks you as a choice and lets you move upmarket into the enterprise. People hearing about Notion through many channels made larger companies comfortable buying more seats.

Community-led growth = using community-driven ubiquity to move upmarket into the enterprise.
Multiple exposures (social, podcasts, friends, billboards) de-risk the buying decision.
The same effect powered analogous companies like Figma.

“it's when your community helps you achieve such ubiquity and such name recognition that it actually allows you to start moving up market into the…”
Camille Ricketts · 13:00

#community-led-growth#enterprise#marketing#notion

Explainer20:00

The 'atomic unit of sharing' that makes community work

Community works best when your product creates something people want to share because it expresses something about themselves. At Notion that was templates and workspaces; showing off a creation signals you're organized, well-versed, and self-expressive — the same aspirational dynamic that powers Figma and Canva.

Community pays off when the product generates shareable, identity-expressing artifacts.
At Notion the atomic unit of sharing was templates and workspaces.
Sharing a creation is aspirational: it signals mastery, organization, and self-expression.

“I think that community lends itself particularly well if you have something that your product creates that people want to share because it exhibits something…”
Camille Ricketts · 20:30

#community#product#sharing#notion

Explainer23:00

Ambassadors vs champions: two Notion communities

Ambassadors are non-transactional external fans who love building and sharing with Notion; the program started in 2019 with just 20 of the most vocal social-media users. Champions are the most avid users inside customer companies, gathered in a separate Slack that gives customer success a direct channel. Over time the biggest draw wasn't perks but the dense friendships members formed with each other.

Ambassadors are passionate, non-paid external advocates who love building and sharing.
Champions are power users inside customer companies, aiding customer success and expansion.
The initial ambassador base was 20 of the most vocal users on Twitter and other platforms.
Members increasingly stayed for peer bonds and mutual help, not just early feature access.

“They're people who are really just passionate about the product. So it's not transactional.”
Camille Ricketts · 24:30

#community#ambassadors#champions#notion

Explainer51:30

Content market fit: treat content like a product

Just as you chase product market fit, Camille argues you must chase content market fit — approaching content the way you'd approach a product. Start with your audience: who they are, what they need to get promoted, what they need to avoid failure, and what causes them anxiety, then build a content product that genuinely addresses it.

Content should be built like a product, starting from the audience's real needs.
Ask what your audience needs to get promoted, avoid failure, and reduce anxiety.
The goal is a content product that delivers genuine value to that specific audience.

“the way that you think about product market fit, you have to think about content market fit.”
Camille Ricketts · 51:30

#content-marketing#audience#strategy

Story· 4

Story06:30

What Camille learned sitting next to Elon Musk at early Tesla

Camille was head of PR at early Tesla before the Model S launched, sitting to Elon's right to keep him armed with data for press. Her biggest takeaway was Elon's ability to convey the emotional quality of a mission, enlisting hearts and minds around the electric-vehicle revolution and space travel.

The role demanded being extremely on-point and well-versed in every topic that could come up.
Elon's standout talent was painting an emotional picture of the vision he was chasing.
Conveying the emotional quality of a mission is what wins hearts and minds.

“was painting an emotional picture of the vision that he was really going after and being able to convey the emotional quality of the mission…”
Camille Ricketts · 06:30

#leadership#storytelling#tesla#vision

Story10:00

Notion's massive 2021 outage and the resilience lesson

On the first day back from holidays in January 2021, Notion had a massive outage, with panicked users flooding Twitter and Reddit. The scramble showed how central Notion had become, but the real takeaway was that a great product has more built-in resilience than you fear in the moment.

The outage was an all-hands-on-deck scramble on roughly January 3rd, 2021.
The community rallied, sending hugs and telling others to give the team a break.
Users almost always come back to an awesome product, even after a long outage.

“truly there's more resilience built into the system than you might think.”
Camille Ricketts · 11:30

#community#product#resilience#notion

Story21:30

The creator who made $35,000 in 4 months selling one template

Camille recounts hearing, around mid-2021, of a creator who made about $35,000 in four months selling a single Notion template — a story that became common thereafter. Notion invested in guides, networks, and connections so community members could build real businesses, and many consultants who came up through the community now employ dozens of people and drive enterprise adoption.

One creator made ~$35,000 in 4 months from a single template; that became a common story.
Notion nurtured multiple monetization routes (templates, consulting, courses) early.
Consultants who rose through the community now employ dozens and feed the enterprise motion.
Tying someone's income to Notion is the ultimate evangelism incentive.

“we heard of one creator who had made like $35,000 in 4 months selling one template.”
Camille Ricketts · 22:00

#community#creators#monetization#notion

Story57:30

Why comms still matters: the WSJ story that was Notion's big break

Against the 'go direct' narrative, Camille remains a believer in comms and press as rare, credible megaphones. She points to David Pierce's Wall Street Journal piece calling Notion the one work-life productivity app you'll ever need — a demonstrable inflection point — and notes Product Hunt was Notion's other big break.

Press offers reach plus a stamp of credibility that owned media alone can't match.
David Pierce's WSJ story was a demonstrable turning point for Notion's growth.
Product Hunt was Notion's other major break, for launches and for template discovery.
Portfolio companies that landed mission-telling stories saw big gains in discovery and recruiting.

“published a story that said this is the one work life productivity app that you'll ever need. And that was Notion's big break.”
Camille Ricketts · 58:30

#pr#comms#content-marketing#notion

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway14:00

Aim for discovery, not just awareness

Camille prefers 'discovery' over 'awareness' because discovery implies intent — the moment someone has heard enough that they actively take the step to learn more. That intent-to-explore was where the brand team wanted to focus its work.

Awareness is passive; discovery involves intent to find out more.
Discovery happens after enough repeated exposure or intrigue to act.
The brand team optimized for motivating that active step.

“I love using the word discovery cuz I think that that is even a little bit like a step further than awareness.”
Camille Ricketts · 14:00

#brand#discovery#marketing

Takeaway15:00

The one brand metric that mattered: net new visitors

When teams struggle to measure brand and awareness, Camille found net new visitors to the Notion website — month-over-month first-time visitors — the single most instructive metric. It was the brand team's core responsibility across community, content, and awareness campaigns.

Net new visitors = how many people who'd never visited were motivated to come learn about the product.
It was the shared KPI for the brand, community, and content team.
Influencer efforts (run by Lexi Barnhorn) were highly measurable and traceable directly to site traffic.

“the one that I found to be the most instructive was net new visitors to the Notion website.”
Camille Ricketts · 15:00

#metrics#brand#kpi#growth

Takeaway52:30

Make your content a painkiller, not a vitamin

Applying the vitamin-versus-painkiller dichotomy to content, Camille says painkillers always win. Great content solves real pain — reducing confusion, or making people feel less alone. A core First Round Review job was helping operators share failures so others felt normalized and less alone in their struggles.

Painkiller content beats vitamin content every time.
Content can relieve confusion or make people feel less alone.
First Round Review normalized operators' failures to reassure readers.
There are emotional jobs-to-be-done, not just utilitarian ones.

“there's the vitamin versus painkiller sort of dichotomy, and painkillers always win.”
Camille Ricketts · 52:30

#content-marketing#jobs-to-be-done#audience

Takeaway54:30

Great posts take ~8 hours to write — and time correlates with results

A First Round Review post took roughly 8 hours to write, on top of all the interview prep and mining of tactical gems. Lenny's median post takes about 10 hours, and he finds a strong correlation between time invested and how well a post performs — most people neither have the time nor realize the bar is that high.

Writing a First Round post alone took about 8 hours, after extensive prep.
Lenny's median post takes roughly 10 hours to write.
Time invested strongly correlates with how well a post performs.
The internet's content bar is so high that beating the noise simply takes time.

“it would take like 8 hours to just write the thing.”
Camille Ricketts · 54:30

“I find this really strong correlation between the time it takes me to write a post and how well it does.”
Lenny · 55:30

#content-marketing#writing#quality

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

Community as an Economy

Content Market Fit

The Ambassador Program Blueprint

The Atomic Unit of Sharing Test

The Community Form-Factor Matrix

People & resources mentioned

People · 18

Resources · 36

Insights & moments

◆Hot Take· 3

Don't measure community to death at the start

The contrarian case for growing your community slowly

Founders shouldn't set themselves a social-media quota

✶Explainer· 4

What community-led growth actually means

The 'atomic unit of sharing' that makes community work

Ambassadors vs champions: two Notion communities

Content market fit: treat content like a product

❝Story· 4

What Camille learned sitting next to Elon Musk at early Tesla

Notion's massive 2021 outage and the resilience lesson

The creator who made $35,000 in 4 months selling one template

Why comms still matters: the WSJ story that was Notion's big break

▲Takeaway· 4

Aim for discovery, not just awareness

The one brand metric that mattered: net new visitors

Make your content a painkiller, not a vitamin

Great posts take ~8 hours to write — and time correlates with results

Hot Take· 3

Explainer· 4

Story· 4

Takeaway· 4