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Georgiana Laudi (Forget The Funnel)29 September 2022

Customer-led growth

7Frameworks
12Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Productivity4 steps

Async Priority Codes for Small Teams

Tag every Slack message with a response-window code so nobody has to monitor the channel.

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Strategy6 steps

Customer Job Prioritization Criteria

Five tests for choosing which customer job to lead with when research surfaces more than one.

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Marketing5 steps

The Best-Customer Research Survey

Survey only recent, happy, paying customers, with questions that reconstruct their decision.

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Marketing5 steps

The Customer-Led Growth Loop

Understand best customers, map their value journey, measure it, fix what's misaligned.

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Marketing5 steps

The Messaging Guide That Rolls Up to the Job

A 5-7 page guardrail doc: value prop, competitive edge, ranked emotional and functional benefits.

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Marketing6 steps

The Six-Milestone Customer Journey Map

Struggle, evaluation, growth — six value milestones that replace the funnel as your growth model.

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Marketing6 steps

Value-Moment KPIs and the Win-Back Loop

Tie each milestone to a compound usage metric, then use it to catch people when they fall.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 2

Myth Buster43:00

70% Log In Once and Never Return, Yet Nobody Has a Win-Back

Gia cites the stat that roughly 70% of people log into a product once and never come back, and is repeatedly stunned that so many companies have no re-engagement or win-back experience. Her approach is both proactive (push people toward the value moment) and reactive (catch them when they fall off), which is only possible if you're measuring something meaningful at each milestone.

  • Roughly 70% of people log in once and never return
  • Most companies have no win-back or re-engagement experience
  • You can't keep emailing people who haven't reached a value moment
  • The strategy is proactive pushing plus reactive catching
  • Catching drop-offs requires a KPI at each milestone

“I think it's like 70 of people log into an App log into a product once and never come back”

Gia · 43:00
#retention#win-back#engagement#activation
Myth Buster57:30

Customer Research Doesn't Have to Cause Analysis Paralysis

Gia counters the common objection that research is slow and leads to analysis paralysis. In a survey scenario like SparkToro's, she says you can come out with something solid in just two or three weeks, avoiding the too-many-cooks bickering. She also pushes back on founders who think everything already lives in their head: products, markets, and customers change, and founders always learn something new.

  • Survey-based research can produce solid direction in two or three weeks
  • It avoids stakeholder bickering and analysis paralysis
  • Founders knowing the problem doesn't mean the knowledge stays current
  • Products, markets, customers, and teams all change over time
  • She's never seen a founder do this research and not learn something new

“I have lots of examples of companies where we run surveys it can be a couple of weeks like two or three weeks you can…”

Gia · 58:00
#research#surveys#founders#objections

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take07:00

Why Funnels and Pirate Metrics Are Broken

Gia explains why she named her consultancy 'Forget the Funnel.' Funnels and stage labels like MQL/SQL bucket every customer the same, measure the value to the business rather than the value to the customer, and treat acquisition as the finish line. For recurring-revenue SaaS, she argues, that framing leaves out retention, expansion, and the customer's problem stage entirely.

  • Nobody actually knows what MQL/SQL mean, and they assume all customers and products are the same
  • Funnels put the business at the center instead of the customer
  • For SaaS you can't treat growth as ending at acquisition, or you're out of business
  • Most models ignore post-acquisition retention and expansion
  • They also delete the pre-discovery 'problem stage' context that's most valuable for messaging

“puts businesses at the center of the business versus putting customers at the center right”

Gia · 07:30

“so yeah that's in a nutshell funnels are bad”

Gia · 08:30
#funnels#saas#growth#metrics
Hot Take13:00

Product Onboarding Is Nobody's Job

Gia argues the post-acquisition experience is chronically neglected because product onboarding falls into organizational no-man's-land. There's no natural handoff between teams, so it becomes a messy middle nobody owns. Her opinion: if it's freemium, onboarding is a marketing tool and marketing should own it, though not every company agrees.

  • Post-acquisition experience is 'so often an afterthought'
  • Onboarding ownership is ambiguous between marketing and product
  • Freemium onboarding, in her view, is a marketing responsibility
  • The lack of a natural handoff creates a 'messy middle'
  • Nearly every company they've worked with had room to improve onboarding and activation

“it tends to be kind of like no man's land like who owns that is it marketing”

Gia · 13:00
#onboarding#activation#org-design#freemium

Explainer· 2

Explainer24:30

How to Choose Which Customer Job to Lead With

Gia walks through the criteria for picking one customer job to lead with when research surfaces several. She weighs willingness to pay, urgency of the problem (painkiller vs vitamin), retention and expansion potential, how easy the segment is to market to, and whether you hold an unfair advantage. For SparkToro that meant leaning into marketers over data analysts.

  • High willingness to pay: no question they'd buy a product like yours
  • Match hand-holding needs to whether you're product-led or sales-led
  • Prioritize an urgent problem: sell a painkiller, not a vitamin
  • Favor high retention or expansion potential for long-term need
  • Prefer segments that congregate (easy to market to) or where you have an unfair advantage

“so the whole painkiller versus vitamin thing you always want to be you know selling a painkiller”

Gia · 25:00
#prioritization#positioning#jobs-to-be-done#sparktoro
Explainer56:30

Ozzy Osbourne vs King Charles: Why Personas Fall Down

Gia explains jobs-to-be-done by contrasting it with demographic personas. Ozzy Osbourne and King Charles are the same age, live in the same area, both own a dog and love cars, so they're demographically identical, yet lead completely different lives with different motivations. Personas fall down there; jobs-to-be-done instead identifies the better life a customer is seeking, with your product as the vehicle.

  • Demographic data doesn't capture what customers are trying to accomplish
  • Ozzy Osbourne and King Charles are demographically identical but live different lives
  • Motivation, not demographics, is what actually differs
  • Jobs-to-be-done identifies the desired outcome or better life sought
  • Your product is just the vehicle to get customers there

“they both have a dog they both love cars they both you know from a demographic standpoint they are identical but they obviously lead very…”

Gia · 57:00
#jobs-to-be-done#personas#customer-research

Story· 3

Story09:00

How Better Messaging Doubled Downstream Conversion Untouched

Gia shares a favorite case: for a social media tool they did simple research, identified two jobs-to-be-done, zeroed in on one, and rewrote the website messaging. Website conversion rose 89% even after shortening the trial from 30 to 7 days. The surprise was that trial-to-paid conversion jumped 40% without them touching anything post-signup, purely because better-fit customers were now coming through the door.

  • Research found two jobs-to-be-done; they focused messaging on one
  • Trial was shortened from 30 days to 7 days
  • Website conversion increased 89% from the new messaging
  • Trial-to-paid rose 40% with zero changes after signup
  • The lift came entirely from more qualified customers entering the top of the journey

“the conversional website went up with this new messaging by 89”

Gia · 10:30

“the trial to pay conversion rate increased 40 and we didn't touch it it was just because as a more qualified better fit customer was…”

Gia · 11:00
#conversion#messaging#positioning#case-study
Story14:00

The Airbnb 'Snow White' Wall That Changed How Gia Thinks

On a 2013 tour of Airbnb's office, Gia saw sheets of paper taped to a wall mapping the entire customer journey through the emotional lens of the customer, not the business. It was the opposite of pirate metrics, and it reframed how she approaches growth. Airbnb internally called it 'Project Snow White,' inspired by Disney's storyboarding, and even hired a full-time storyboard artist from Pixar to draw the keyframes.

  • The wall mapped the customer journey including emotional milestones and life events outside the product
  • It was legible at a glance so anyone walking by understood the goal at each milestone
  • It reframed marketing as delivering value across the whole journey, not just awareness
  • Internally named 'Project Snow White,' inspired by the biography of Walt Disney
  • Airbnb hired a full-time storyboard artist from Pixar to draw the keyframes

“holy [ __ ] this is completely different it's this is completely through the lens of the customer versus the business”

Gia · 16:00

“they're being be hired a full-time storyboard artist from Pixar to draw these keyframes”

Lenny · 18:30
#airbnb#customer-journey#storyboarding#growth
Story44:30

The Search-Lists-Export Value Moments That Doubled SparkToro's Conversion

For SparkToro, Gia's team tied each milestone to concrete product actions. First value was five-plus searches plus creating at least one list; deeper engagement added discovering the export feature. Lists and exports existed but weren't front-loaded in the experience. SparkToro's own VP built onboarding emails and a checklist around these moments, and trial-to-paid doubled.

  • Tipping into evaluation was measured by performing a first search
  • First value KPI was roughly five-plus searches plus at least one list
  • Deeper engagement required searches, lists, and discovering export once
  • Lists and export weren't 'hidden' but weren't front-and-center enough
  • SparkToro's team built onboarding emails and a checklist, and trial-to-paid doubled

“so that first value kpi is I think it was five plus surges Plus at least one list”

Gia · 45:30
#sparktoro#activation#kpis#onboarding#case-study

Tool· 1

Tool59:30

Gia's Recommended Books on Positioning and Jobs-to-Be-Done

Gia rarely reads marketing books but names a few foundational ones. She calls April Dunford's 'Obviously Awesome' required reading for founders and 'Hooked' by Nir Eyal a great companion. For jobs-to-be-done she points to Bob Moesta (a key architect of JTBD), his book 'Demand-Side Sales,' the site jtbd.info, and 'When Coffee and Kale Compete.' Outside marketing she recommends 'Four Thousand Weeks.'

  • 'Obviously Awesome' by April Dunford is treated as required reading for founders
  • 'Hooked' by Nir Eyal recommended as a complement
  • Bob Moesta is cited as an original architect of jobs-to-be-done
  • 'Demand-Side Sales' by Bob Moesta and jtbd.info are JTBD resources
  • 'When Coffee and Kale Compete' and the non-marketing 'Four Thousand Weeks' also recommended

“obviously Awesome by April Dunford I'm sure you've proved that one a ton it's kind of like required reading”

Gia · 1:00:00
#books#recommendations#jobs-to-be-done#positioning

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway22:30

Only Survey Customers Who Still Remember Life Before You

When identifying 'best customers' to learn from, Gia's criteria are: they get a ton of value, they pay, they're happy, they're low-maintenance, and crucially they signed up recently enough to remember life before your product. She targets the three-to-six-month range, because longtime customers just invent answers about what their life used to be like.

  • Best customers = high value received, paying, happy, low-maintenance
  • They must remember what life was like before the product
  • Target the three-to-six-month tenure window
  • Two-year customers fill in answers with what they think was going on
  • Recent customers give more accurate, more interesting responses

“they signed up for your product recently enough that they remember what life was like before so generally we say that's like in the three…”

Gia · 22:30
#customer-research#surveys#jobs-to-be-done
Takeaway51:30

Reflect Customers' Own Words Back at Them

Gia's core messaging principle: internal judgment and team knowledge have value, but should never come before learning from your best customers and using their exact language. Reflecting customers back to themselves is what proves you understand their problem. She recommends ranking value themes by how often survey respondents mention them, so messaging leads with what customers care about, not what the team thinks is coolest.

  • Never let internal opinion come before listening to ideal customers
  • Use the customer's own language and reflect them back to themselves
  • It's hard to read your own label from inside the jar
  • Rank messaging by frequency of what customers say they value most
  • Lead with what customers care about, not the coolest thing about your product

“it should never come before learning from and listening to your best ideal customers and using the language that they use you want to reflect…”

Gia · 51:30
#messaging#voice-of-customer#positioning#copywriting