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Ebi Atawodi (YouTube, Netflix, Uber)03 December 2023

Crafting a compelling product vision

9Frameworks
14Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 4

Hot Take36:00

If ChatGPT Can Spit Out Your PRD, You Haven't Done Your Job

Ebi pushes back on PMs who think they should have no opinions and just follow data and research. The real value is product sense, a trained feeling for what's right, not something you can prompt out of an AI. She challenged her own team: if research alone could produce the PRD, the PM has added nothing.

  • PMs shouldn't defer entirely to data and research; trust your gut and instincts
  • Product sense is a feeling refined by curiosity and exposure to great products, not pure logic
  • If an AI could generate the PRD from the research, the PM hasn't added value
  • Lenny cites Patrick Collison: research updates your mental model of the customer, which then informs what to build

if I could put all the research into Bard or chat GPT and it could spit out a PRD then you haven't done your job

Lenny · 36:00

it's not product you know uh logic it's product sense it's a feeling

Ebi Atawodi · 37:00
#product-sense#ai#product-management#decision-making
Hot Take55:30

Infrastructure Is the Product, Period

Ebi rejects the idea that tech debt and infrastructure are 'the engineer's problem.' Infrastructure is product debt, and you can't build a skyscraper on a shaky foundation, so it belongs on the PM's problem list too.

  • Tech debt is really product debt and is the PM's problem
  • You cannot build a skyscraper on a shaky foundation
  • Infrastructure problems belong on the same problem list as user-facing ones
  • It's not just something for engineers to keep raising alone

infrastructure is the product period

Ebi Atawodi · 55:30

I cannot build a skyscraper on a shaky foundation

Ebi Atawodi · 55:30
#infrastructure#tech-debt#product-management
Hot Take1:10:30

If You Don't Evolve Your Culture, It Evolves Without You

Ebi describes Uber's early 'monolithic' culture that never revisited whether it still served the company as context changed. Because culture is just norms and beliefs, it always evolves; if leadership doesn't do it intentionally, it drifts. She lived the #DeleteUber moment when 400,000 people deleted the app over a miscommunication.

  • Culture is norms and beliefs, which inevitably change
  • If you don't intentionally evolve culture, it evolves without you
  • Audit which good behaviors you reward and which bad behaviors you condone
  • Uber's unrevisited culture contributed to the #DeleteUber backlash
  • She watched 400,000 people delete the app over a miscommunication

if you don't intentionally evolve the culture it will evolve without you

Ebi Atawodi · 1:10:30

400,000 people have deleted your app just because of a miscommunication

Ebi Atawodi · 1:11:00
#company-culture#uber#leadership
Hot Take1:21:30

I Don't Believe in Being Liked. I Believe in Being Loved.

Ebi's leadership philosophy: she doesn't optimize for being liked, she aims to be loved, which she defines as the choice to extend yourself for someone's growth. Extending yourself isn't always nice, but when a team knows you genuinely care about the human behind the role, they can receive raw feedback as being in their best interest.

  • Being liked and being loved are very different leadership goals
  • Love = the choice to extend yourself for the spiritual growth of yourself or another
  • Extending yourself sometimes means hard, not-nice conversations
  • Vulnerability is a strength; see the human behind the role
  • Trust built over time lets people accept raw feedback

I do not believe in being liked that's AB I believe in being loved

Ebi Atawodi · 1:21:30

love is the choice to extend yourself for the spiritual growth of one self or another

Ebi Atawodi · 1:22:00
#leadership#management#feedback#team-culture

Explainer· 1

Explainer05:30

Vision vs Mission: The Pilot Who Won't Tell You the Destination

Ebi separates vision from mission using a plane analogy: a mission is the purpose (fly people safely), while a vision is the vivid picture of the destination itself. A good vision, she argues, is lofty yet realistic, sits in a vacuum from today's technical limitations, and is grounded in a clear, potent problem.

  • Mission = the why/purpose (e.g. fly people safely); vision = the picture of what it looks like when you arrive
  • A vision must be lofty enough to excite and slightly scare you, but still feel attainable
  • It should be devoid of today's tech or resource limitations, because tomorrow's limits differ
  • It must be grounded in a clear, potent problem people care about
  • Every PM needs one regardless of level, junior or senior

our destination is Miami maybe I'm dreaming of beaches and it's going to be 24 degrees when we get there

Ebi Atawodi · 06:00
#product-vision#product-management#strategy#leadership

Story· 2

Story09:00

Uber's Vision: A World Without Parking

Ebi shares Uber's product vision of a continuous, connected trip so cities no longer need parking, freeing up the ~25% of urban space devoted to it. She links it to real change she sees in Amsterdam, where parking lots become communal gardens, and to features like UberPool and autonomous vehicles.

  • Roughly 25% of the average city is parking space, including whole buildings and basements
  • A continuous, connected trip means cars keep moving and rarely need to stop or park
  • Freed-up space could become homes, restaurants and gardens amid a housing crisis
  • UberPool and autonomous vehicles were framed as steps toward this vision
  • Amsterdam converting street parking into gardens shows it's attainable, not crazy

you're in San Francisco you'll see buildings just floors just for parking

Ebi Atawodi · 09:00

in a world where we have housing problems we have ridiculous prices for rents just imagine if you could free up all of those spaces…

Ebi Atawodi · 09:30
#product-vision#uber#cities#mobility
Story18:00

The Hand-Drawn Bodega Sketch That Sold a 4-Year Vision

To pitch a vision where anyone could top up their Uber balance with cash at any corner shop, Ebi worked with a designer who literally drew the future in pencil, a Nigerian-style kiosk with a person, cash and a receipt. The product took four years to build, but that single image got people excited and made it feel possible.

  • The vision: walk into any bodega or mom-and-pop shop worldwide and top up your Uber balance with cash
  • A designer sketched the scene by hand to make it tangible
  • The image made people believe the future was possible
  • The product ultimately took four years to build
  • Illustrates 'a picture tells a thousand words' for vision-selling

words are amazing but a Picture Tells a thousand words

Ebi Atawodi · 18:00

it took four years to build it but that image got people so excited

Ebi Atawodi · 19:00
#product-vision#design#uber#storytelling

Tool· 2

Tool32:30

The 'Top 10 Things You Should Know' Living Doc

Ebi makes every PM maintain a living Google doc of the 10 biggest known problems with their product, revised every quarter. Problems can be qualitative, quantitative, or tech debt. The test of success: if she taps any engineering or design partner's reports, they should name the same top problems, proving the team shares a clear North Star.

  • Each PM keeps a living, quarterly-updated doc of 10 known problems
  • Problems can be qualitative, quantitative, or tech debt
  • She first ran it on Uber's Money team, branded 'More Money More Problems'
  • Success check: adjacent engineering and design teams should independently name the same top problems
  • Clarity of the problem acts as the team's North Star before anyone moves on

I call it top 10 things you should know it's a living document

Ebi Atawodi · 32:30
#product-management#team-process#problem-definition
Tool1:27:00

New YouTube Tools: AI Inspiration and Thumbnail Test & Compare

Ebi previews features from YouTube's 'creative partner' vision: AI Inspiration, which generates video ideas based on what a creator's subscribers and viewers are watching, and Thumbnail Test & Compare, which A/B tests up to three thumbnails to see which actually performs instead of guessing.

  • AI Inspiration generates ideas, topics and keywords from what your audience watches; type a word and get suggestions
  • A version already exists in YouTube Studio, with more launching next year
  • Thumbnail Test & Compare A/B tests up to three thumbnails for real performance
  • It rolled out to a broader set of creators around the episode's release
  • Framed under YouTube Studio positioning itself as the creator's 'creative partner'

imagine a world where we can actually use AI to like generate ideas for you based on what we know your community of subscribers and…

Ebi Atawodi · 1:27:30

another really exciting one is we launched thumb test and compare

Ebi Atawodi · 1:28:00
#youtube#creator-tools#ai#product-launch

Takeaway· 5

Takeaway15:00

A Pure Story Beats Numbers Every Time

Ebi argues that storytelling is one of the most powerful PM skills. Across generations, what people pass on are stories, not stats. Counterintuitively, she says a pure story lands wider than numbers alone or even numbers blended with stories, though this doesn't mean abandoning analytical rigor.

  • What survives across generations is stories, not numbers or stats
  • Pure stories create the widest gap in impact versus numbers alone or numbers-plus-stories
  • This is not an excuse to stop being analytical
  • Storytelling is central to communicating a product vision

one of the most powerful skills of a product manager storytelling

Ebi Atawodi · 15:00

if you do numbers alone or numbers with stories or stories alone the Gap is so wide in stories alone

Ebi Atawodi · 15:00
#storytelling#product-management#communication
Takeaway30:30

Dogfood, Catfood, and 'Understand Work'

Ebi stresses spending time as an actual user before leaning on research. She keeps multiple accounts on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok to feel how products manifest, and calls the neglected first-use onboarding experience 'understand work.' Dogfooding (using your own product) is a must; catfooding (using competitors) builds product intuition.

  • 'Understand work' = actually walking through your own onboarding and first-use flow, which most PMs skip
  • She keeps multiple accounts across YouTube, Instagram and TikTok to study how products behave
  • Dogfood = using your own product; catfood = using competitors' products
  • Research is best for foundational problems a few cycles out, not a substitute for using the product
  • Build intuition by exposing yourself to products you love and articulating why

you need to do understand work and what is understand work

Ebi Atawodi · 30:30

dog food meaning using your own product absolutely a must cat food using your competitors or other people in the Landscapes products

Ebi Atawodi · 31:00
#product-management#user-research#product-sense
Takeaway1:14:00

Why 'The Buck Stops With You' Changes Everything

Reflecting on Netflix, Ebi notes that when a single person owns a decision, behavior flips: instead of chaos, people work more methodically to raise their conviction from 95% to 99%. She insists every decision have one 'informed captain' rather than consensus among five, and champions an 'owner not a renter' mindset.

  • At Netflix, single-owner decisions made people more rigorous, not chaotic
  • Owners push their conviction from 95% toward 99% before deciding
  • Every decision needs one accountable 'informed captain,' not consensus among many
  • 'Owner not a renter': act as if the house were yours
  • Maps to the RAPID-style model with a clear decider

it's funny when the buck stops with you how the whole thing flips on its head

Ebi Atawodi · 1:14:00

who is on the hook for this decision

Ebi Atawodi · 1:21:00
#decision-making#leadership#netflix#team-culture
Takeaway1:24:00

Do You Know Your Engineering Manager's Birthday?

Ebi shares a relationship test born from a PM-trial period when she and her associate EM (Gergely Orosz) hated each other before becoming close friends. Knowing a partner's birthday, work anniversary, and career aspirations, and doing fun things together, builds the human bond that makes the working relationship thrive.

  • Ask whether you know your EM's birthday, work anniversary, and career goals
  • Rooted in her early PM-trial pairing with Gergely Orosz, whom she first clashed with
  • Doing fun things together (shows, meals) deepens the working relationship
  • You spend a huge share of waking hours with colleagues, so enjoy it
  • Bonding over the human behind the role improves the work

do you know your engineering manager's birthday it's the day they showed up on the world it's the most important day for them

Ebi Atawodi · 1:24:30
#management#relationships#team-culture#pm-engineer
Takeaway1:29:30

Breaking Into PM: Opportunity Meets Preparation

Ebi, a self-described Nigerian woman with no MBA and no consulting background, argues the best PMs often come from something else because they have empathy for the other side. Her advice: start doing product management before you have the title by opening your favorite apps, listing their top 10 problems, and designing fixes, training your product sense so you're prepared when opportunity comes.

  • Great PMs often come from non-traditional backgrounds and bring outsider empathy
  • Practice PM before the title: list the top 10 problems in apps you use and imagine fixes
  • This constantly trains your product sense
  • Invokes the 10,000-hours idea; you don't get lucky, opportunity meets preparation
  • She reached director level without an MBA or consulting background

some of the best product managers come from something else because you have empathy for being on the other side

Ebi Atawodi · 1:29:30

it's opportunity meets preparation you're already prepared

Ebi Atawodi · 1:30:00
#career#product-management#breaking-in#product-sense