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Ravi Mehta (Tinder, Facebook, Tripadvisor, Outpace)19 January 2023

Building your product strategy stack

7Frameworks
14Insights

Episode overview

Lenny Rachitsky interviews Ravi Mehta about the shift from large-company product leadership to startup building, including why startups benefit more from low decision latency than raw execution velocity. Mehta explains his product strategy stack—company mission, company strategy, product strategy, roadmap, and goals—and illustrates it through Tripadvisor, Tinder, and Hinge. They also discuss goal-setting under uncertainty, a 12-competency model for product managers, exponential feedback, and selective micromanagement as a temporary leadership mode. The conversation closes with Outpace's use of AI to amplify human coaches and Mehta's recommendations for books, software, podcasts, and television.

Key ideas

  • Startups may have less execution velocity than large companies, but their advantage is low latency between forming a hypothesis, testing it, and changing course.
  • The product strategy stack connects company mission and company strategy to product strategy, roadmap, and goals; it can be built top-down or debugged bottom-up.
  • Visual wireframes make strategy concrete, expose trade-offs, and reduce the divergent interpretations that arise from words alone.
  • Goals should follow strategic direction: metrics are useful when they measure progress toward a chosen destination, not when they substitute for deciding the destination.
  • Teams should set goals at their frontier of understanding, addressing understanding, dependency, execution, or strategic risk according to what remains uncertain.
  • Product-management capability spans product execution, customer insight, product strategy, and leadership, with the same broad competencies applying from APM through CPO.
  • Exponential feedback targets underlying behaviors and competencies so that improvement compounds beyond a single tactical correction.
  • Selective micromanagement is appropriate when a team is moving in the wrong direction, provided it is tactical, temporary, and used to restore autonomous scalable leadership.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 10

  • Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter

    welcome to Lenny's podcast I'm Lenny and my goal here is to help you get better at the craft of building and growing products

  • Ravi MehtaMentionsRavi was Chief product officer at Tinder the product director at Facebook VPR product at TripAdvisor and now he's co-founder and CEO of a company called outpace

    today my guest is Ravi Mehta

  • Ravi MehtaMentionsRavi was Chief product officer at Tinder the product director at Facebook VPR product at TripAdvisor and now he's co-founder and CEO of a company called outpace

    Ravi was Chief product officer at Tinder the product director at Facebook VPR product at TripAdvisor

  • Brian BalfourMentionsI actually was recently listening to another podcast by Adam Fishman and he had Brian Balfour on

    shortly after that I joined Brian Balfour who's the CEO of reforge and his first startup

  • Jules WalterMentionsJules is a product leader at YouTube. Before that, he spent 4 and 1/2 years at Slack, where he was their first growth PM

    I'm thinking of the advice Jules Walter shared on this podcast a couple episodes ago

  • Steve JobsMentionsSteve Jobs is just uh the bar he held for the company and for technical talent and for excellence was not uh wavering.

    some of the most Innovative leaders in Tech are famous Micro Managers Steve Jobs was a micromanager

  • Mark ZuckerbergMentionsit was sort of a random decision for Mark Zuckerberg to move from a uh monthly active to a daily active

    Elon Musk as a micromanager Mark Zuckerberg's a micromanager

  • Elon MuskMentionsWhether you like him or not, Elon, this is similar to his um if you watch him, he has sets these really ambitious goals

    Elon Musk as a micromanager Mark Zuckerberg's a micromanager

  • Ezra KleinMentionsmentioned

    one of my favorites is the Ezra Klein show

  • Ian McAllisterMentionsIan has managed over 100 product managers in his career he spent 12 years at Amazon where he built Amazon smile

    we had a Ian Mcallister on the podcast talking a lot about that stuff

Resources · 44

  • Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky

    welcome to Lenny's podcast I'm Lenny and my goal here is to help you get better at the craft of building and growing products

  • TinderMentionscompany

    Ravi was Chief product officer at Tinder

  • MergeMentionscompany · Merge

    this episode is brought to you by merge

  • OneSchemaMentionssoftware · Christina Gilbert

    today's episode is brought to you by one schema the embeddable CSV importer for SAS

  • OneSchemaMentionssoftware · Christina Gilbert

    learn more at oneschema.com

  • MicrosoftMentionscompany · Bill Gates and Paul Allen

    my first role out of school was Microsoft and so I joined Microsoft

  • Xbox LiveMentionsproduct · Microsoft

    I joined as one of the first few people on the Xbox Live team

  • NintendoMentionscompany

    that was really different than how other companies in the space like Nintendo or Sony were thinking about gaming

  • SonyMentionscompany

    that was really different than how other companies in the space like Nintendo or Sony were thinking about gaming

  • FacebookMentionscompany · Meta

    product leadership role at Facebook and then I was the chief product officer at Tinder

  • TinderMentionscompany

    I was the chief product officer at Tinder

  • TripadvisorMentionscompany

    at TripAdvisor where I was head of the consumer product team

  • Reforge Product Strategy ProgramCoinedcourse · Ravi Mehta and Reforge

    and helping them launch the product strategy program

  • ReforgeMentionscompany · Brian Balfour

    I spent about 18 months working with reforge as an entrepreneur in residence or an executive in Residence

  • Reforge Product Leadership ProgramCoinedcourse · Ravi Mehta and Reforge

    helping them build and launch the product leadership program

  • OutpaceCoinedcompany · Ravi Mehta

    about 18 months ago I decided to start out pace which is a company focused on making Elite expert driven coaching available to everyone

  • Indie HackersRecommendswebsite

    I like the Indie hacker Community

  • Everything MarketplacesRecommendscompany · Mike Williams

    another really good Community is everything Marketplace

  • Everything MarketplacesMentionscompany · Mike Williams

    I think this site is everything marketplaces.com to check out the community

  • Product Strategy StackCoinedother · Ravi Mehta

    the goal of the product strategy stack is to help people take a set of terms that are normally conflated together

  • BalsamiqRecommendssoftware

    I've gone back to balsamic which is a really good wireframing tool

  • SlackMentionssoftware · Slack Technologies

    the article itself has an example which I won't go through now of slack versus Discord

  • DiscordMentionssoftware · Discord Inc.

    the article itself has an example which I won't go through now of slack versus Discord

  • HingeMentionscompany

    comparing Tinder versus hinge both of them are dating apps but they have missions that are really different

  • Tinder GoldMentionsproduct · Tinder

    the main subscription called Tinder gold

  • Tinder PlatinumMentionsproduct · Tinder

    one is Tinder Platinum so that's the third tier of the product

  • MiroRecommendssoftware · Miro

    head on over to miro.com Lenny leave your suggestions

  • HowAboutWeUsesproduct

    I actually met my wife online on a on a defunct dating site app called howboutweed.com

  • Stable DiffusionMentionssoftware · Stability AI

    the advances that we've seen from openii and stable diffusion and mid-journing all these different models

  • MidjourneyMentionssoftware · Midjourney, Inc.

    the advances that we've seen from openii and stable diffusion and mid-journing all these different models

  • OpenAIUsescompany

    we're using that content to prompt in this case open AI to give suggestions to the coach

  • AmazonMentionscompany · Jeff Bezos

    I think Amazon has such a unique way of going about Building Product

  • Working BackwardsRecommendsbook · Colin Bryar and Bill Carr

    I also really like working backwards

  • The Ezra Klein ShowRecommendspodcast · Ezra Klein

    one of my favorites is the Ezra Klein show

  • Star WarsMentionsfilm · George Lucas

    I think it's not just a great Star Wars piece of content it's just a really great piece of Science Fiction

  • AndorRecommendstv show · Tony Gilroy

    I love Andor I I just finished watching it about a week ago

  • SuperhumanUsessoftware · Superhuman

    we're using superhuman I spend most of my day in superhuman

  • AirtableUsessoftware · Airtable

    air table has been amazing it's such a powerful tool we just rebuilt our accounting system and airtable

  • WebflowUsessoftware · Webflow

    webflow we're using constantly it's really changed how we think about building products

  • DescriptUsessoftware

    a lot of the team today is using desk script or descript to edit videos

  • DescriptRecommendssoftware

    we used this script slash D script I also don't know how to pronounce it on this podcast so a huge recommend of that

  • BalsamiqUsessoftware

    I've been a balsamic user for probably 10 years now

  • OutpaceMentionscompany · Ravi Mehta

    my startup is out Pace you can find it at outpace.co

  • Lenny's PodcastMentionspodcast · Lenny Rachitsky

    you can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster33:00

Why Tinder Deliberately Resisted Adding Filters

Almost every dating app lets you filter by occupation, income, religion, height, and more, but Tinder largely resisted them by design. The product philosophy was that if people plug in criteria, Tinder becomes a search engine for people and they only meet a narrow, filtered set. Keeping the experience lightweight and serendipitous is exactly why many users say they met people they never otherwise would have.

  • Filters would turn Tinder into a search engine for people
  • Given the option, users inevitably narrow to a filtered set
  • A lightweight, serendipitous experience helps people meet those they'd never otherwise meet
  • The choice reflects a deliberate product philosophy, not a missing feature

Tinder for it's now got some ability to filter but for the large part has resisted the urge to put those filters in into place…

Ravi Mehta · 33:00
#tinder#product-philosophy#product-strategy

Hot Take· 4

Hot Take08:30

Startups Don't Win On Speed - They Win On Latency

Ravi Mehta argues the common belief that startups are faster than big companies is a misconception. Bigger companies can always out-spend and out-produce a startup on raw velocity; the startup's real edge is latency - how quickly it can go from an idea to a tested hypothesis. He uses a driving analogy: a fast car has a wide turning radius, while a startup has a tight one.

  • Velocity is the quantity of work; latency is how fast you go from idea to validated learning
  • Big companies always have more velocity - more engineers, more spend, more momentum
  • A startup's advantage is a short cycle time between hypothesis and validation
  • Analogy: a fast-moving car can't turn quickly, so startups have a tighter turning radius

the speed that startups have is not really about velocity bigger companies can always get more done they can always spend more they can always…

Ravi Mehta · 09:00

the analogy I like to use it's like driving a car right if a car is going really really fast it can't turn as quickly…

Ravi Mehta · 09:30
#startups#product-leadership#decision-making
Hot Take42:30

The Contrarian Case For Putting Goals After The Roadmap

Ravi admits it's contrarian - people have yelled at him about it - but he places goals after the roadmap in his product strategy stack. A goals-first approach puts all the team's energy on moving a number with no structure for what success looks like or why. He uses a road-trip analogy: you don't start by deciding to drive 250 miles, you decide the destination is Vegas, and the 250 miles only has meaning in that context.

  • A goals-first approach makes teams chase a metric with no structure for why
  • Without a destination, product-direction decisions come and go unnoticed
  • Road-trip analogy: pick the destination first, then the mileage goal has meaning
  • If hitting a goal pulls you away from the destination, that's a conversation worth having

it's a little bit like taking a road trip and starting out by saying hey we need to drive 250 miles it's like no if…

Ravi Mehta · 43:00
#product-strategy#goals#okrs
Hot Take1:06:00

Micromanagement Isn't A Bad Thing

New leaders fear micromanaging, so they either over-control or go fully hands-off and leave their team without guardrails. Ravi argues the real answer is that micromanagement isn't inherently bad - many of tech's most innovative leaders (Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg) are famous micromanagers. The functional mode is 'selective micromanagement': when you lack confidence in a team's direction, get tactical and temporary to set them on the right track, then pull back to scalable leadership.

  • Two failure modes: actual micromanagement, and hands-off leadership with no guardrails
  • Details matter for product builders - sometimes you must weigh in on the text of a button
  • Selective micromanagement: temporarily take some autonomy to correct course, then pull back
  • The goal is to return the team to scalable leadership with autonomy and your confidence

actually micromanagement Is Not a Bad Thing some of the most Innovative leaders in Tech are famous Micro Managers Steve Jobs was a micromanager Elon…

Ravi Mehta · 1:07:00
#leadership#management#product-leadership
Hot Take1:12:30

AI As An Amplifier, Not A Replacement

At his coaching company Outpace, Ravi accelerated the AI roadmap after the 2022 wave of models. They use participants' text answers to prompt suggestions for coaches, and can simulate leadership styles - action-oriented, sympathetic, inquisitive, informative - with different prompts. His takeaway: the most interesting use of AI is amplifying people and giving them a strong starting point, not doing all the work.

  • Outpace uses participant answers to prompt coaching suggestions the coach then tailors
  • Different prompts simulate leadership styles: action-oriented, sympathetic, inquisitive, informative
  • The compelling framing is AI amplifying people, not replacing them
  • AI is best as a strong starting point for both text and image generation

I think one of the most interesting things about it is not AI as a replacement for people but AI as a way to amplify…

Ravi Mehta · 1:14:30
#ai#coaching#product

Explainer· 3

Explainer11:00

Why Startups Should Use Conviction, Not Experiments

Established companies with big audiences can make decisions experimentally - ship it, run a test, read statistical significance. Ravi explains that startups can't do this because they lack the user volume to get valid, timely results, and trying to forces a mistake. Instead, founders should shift to a conviction-oriented approach: gather enough data for informed conviction, execute, then see if it was right.

  • Experimental decision-making needs large audiences for statistically significant results
  • Applying experiments too early at a startup either takes too long or produces invalid results
  • Shift from an experimental to a conviction-oriented decision approach
  • Ask: do we have enough data for informed conviction to move forward and stop digging?

I've had to shift my mindset from an experimental oriented approach to making decisions to much more of a conviction oriented approach

Ravi Mehta · 11:30
#startups#decision-making#product-strategy
Explainer24:30

A Strategy Doc Isn't Done Without Wireframes

At TripAdvisor, Ravi put a stake in the ground that a strategy doc wouldn't be complete without wireframes. Strategy described in words alone leaves everyone with a different interpretation; showing wireframes of what the product looks like when the strategy ships creates real alignment. He compares it to an architect who would never build without a blueprint, and offers a litmus test: what are the four or five items on your mobile nav bar?

  • Strategy in words alone leaves everyone with a different interpretation
  • Wireframes of the implemented strategy create alignment on what's actually being built
  • Analogy: you'd never hire an architect who wouldn't give you a blueprint
  • Litmus test: describe your strategy, then agree on the four or five items in the nav bar

the analogy I like to use it's a little bit like working with an architect you would never work with an architect that didn't provide…

Ravi Mehta · 25:00
#product-strategy#design#alignment
Explainer1:11:00

Alignment vs Confidence: The Currency You Have With Your Manager

Ravi describes a framework for working with a manager built on two variables: how aligned you are with them and how much confidence they have in you. High alignment plus high confidence means full support. But even when you're not aligned - you want to go a different direction - having their confidence earns you permission to go anyway. If you have neither, something must change.

  • Two variables: your alignment with your manager and their confidence in you
  • High alignment plus high confidence equals full support
  • Confidence can earn you permission even when you're not aligned
  • Low alignment and low confidence is not a recipe for success - one must change

if there's a high degree of alignment and a high degree of confidence you have full support but there might be cases where there's actually…

Ravi Mehta · 1:11:30
#leadership#managing-up#career

Story· 1

Story34:00

The Tinder 'Whales' Weren't Who The Team Assumed

Ravi's team noticed a single-digit percentage of Tinder users driving a huge share of a la carte revenue, spending hundreds of dollars a month on Boosts and Super Likes. Their hypothesis was high-net-worth users flaunting wealth. After a usability study, they learned it was the opposite: military members, salespeople, and people new to a city with an intense need to meet someone, who framed the cost against the price of dating. The insight led to Tinder Platinum and a paid 'Super Like with a note.'

  • A small single-digit percentage of users drove a large share of a la carte revenue
  • Initial hypothesis: high-net-worth users who don't care about the money
  • Reality: people with an intense use case (military, sales, new to a city) framing cost against the price of dating
  • Outcomes shipped: Tinder Platinum tier and a higher-priced Super Like with a note

it wasn't that they were a higher net worth they weren't earning any more than the average Tinder user they just had a much more…

Ravi Mehta · 37:00
#tinder#product-discovery#monetization

Q&A· 1

Q&A1:17:30

Ravi's Favorite Interview Question: A Product You Love

Ravi's go-to screening question is 'tell me about a product that you love' - and he can stretch it from five to sixty minutes. He uses the word 'love' deliberately to see which products a candidate genuinely gravitates to, then follows with why they love it, why others do, what feature they'd build, and how they'd measure its success. It reveals product sense and gives insight into the person.

  • Opening screening question: tell me about a product that you love
  • The word 'love' is deliberate to surface genuine engagement
  • Follow-ups probe why they love it, what feature they'd build, and how they'd measure success
  • It's a strong read on a candidate's product sense

my favorite interview question is tell me about a product that you love and I can have that question last five minutes I can have…

Ravi Mehta · 1:17:30
#hiring#interviewing#product-management

Tool· 2

Tool16:00

Two Communities Ravi Recommends For Aspiring Founders

Ravi points aspiring founders to two communities worth their time. The Indie Hacker community is full of solo builders figuring out how to do everything themselves - very different from big-company work. Everything Marketplaces, run by founder Mike, is focused on marketplace businesses but is worth studying by anyone for how well it curates events, people, and resources for founders.

  • Indie Hackers - solo builders who are generalists handling building, selling, and logistics
  • Everything Marketplaces - a curated community for marketplace founders
  • Even non-marketplace founders can learn from Everything Marketplaces' events and curation
  • Connect with builders, operators, angels, and investors early

the Indie hacker Community what I really like about that is it's a lot of people who are think thinking about how do I build…

Ravi Mehta · 16:30

another really good Community is everything Marketplace is Mike the founder of that Community has just done a fantastic job of bringing together a set…

Ravi Mehta · 17:00
#startups#communities#networking
Tool27:00

Balsamiq: The Wireframing Tool Ravi Returns To For Years

For PMs without a designer, Ravi's advice is to learn to sketch and learn Balsamiq, a fast wireframing tool he's used throughout his career. In an afternoon you can produce high-level conceptual wireframes that communicate far more than a words-only spec. He argues thinking at a conceptual UI/UX level is a critical, learnable PM skill that stops you depending on a designer for every idea.

  • Balsamiq is fast and lets you produce conceptual wireframes in an afternoon
  • Conceptual wireframes communicate far more than a words-only spec
  • PMs should learn to sketch and understand UX/UI even without design skills
  • The skill makes you feel more empowered and less dependent on a designer

I've also time and time again throughout my career I've gone back to balsamic which is a really good wireframing tool

Ravi Mehta · 27:00
#tools#wireframing#product-management

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway12:30

Your Big-Company Network Won't Help You Start A Company

When Ravi left Tinder and reached out to former colleagues, he discovered most people build their careers and lifestyles around a particular company stage and don't move between them. The people who thrive early-stage - founders, freelancers who help build startups, angels - are a different community with different, more generalist skills. He advises aspiring founders to plug into an early-stage network as early as possible.

  • Most people anchor their careers to one company stage and rarely switch
  • Early-stage people are generalists comfortable writing code and specs again
  • The network you built at a big company may not be your hiring or support network for a startup
  • Plug into early-stage communities well before you're ready to make the leap

the people sort of really build their their Lifestyles and their careers around a particular stage and there are some people that like to move…

Ravi Mehta · 13:00
#startups#networking#career
Takeaway22:30

Stop Agonizing Over Mission vs Vision

Asked how mission and vision differ, Ravi's core advice is not to overthink it - people get stuck trying to perfect these statements. His simple split: the mission is what you're trying to achieve in the world, the vision is what the world looks like once you've achieved it. He's comfortable combining the two into a single statement, and stresses there's no one right way to do it.

  • People get stuck trying to make mission and vision statements perfect
  • Mission = what you're trying to achieve; vision = what the world looks like once you have
  • Combining them into one statement is fine
  • Just write something that sounds right and excites people, and move on

the most important thing is just don't overthink it just like put something that sounds right and people are excited about in a line around…

Ravi Mehta · 23:00
#product-strategy#mission#vision