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Sachin Monga (Substack, Facebook)30 October 2022

Building Substack

6Frameworks
14Insights

Episode overview

Lenny Rachitsky interviews Substack head of product Sachin Monga about his path from Facebook and Cocoon to leading Substack's evolving product organization. They examine Substack's writer-controlled recommendations system, its network effects, and the practice of building new features with writers through pilots and the Product Lab. Monga also describes Substack's shift from a publishing tool toward a writer-and-reader network while preserving user control, and offers practical guidance for people considering a paid publication.

Key ideas

  • Organize durable product teams around customer groups and enduring missions—writers, readers, and growth—rather than temporary product surfaces.
  • At a fast-growing startup, processes become obsolete as the company scales, so consistent improvement matters more than finding a perfect operating cadence.
  • Product leadership under a strongly opinionated founder begins with facilitation, context-sharing, open communication, and repeated trust-building.
  • Substack prioritizes writer and reader control, even when a more algorithmic or centrally controlled product design might be easier to implement.
  • Writer-curated recommendations created a goodwill-driven network loop and became a major source of free and paid subscriptions across Substack.
  • Fundamental product changes are piloted with writers and readers so feedback can materially reshape the version eventually released.
  • A Substack can serve as the owned home for a creator's most valuable audience across writing, podcasts, video, and community.
  • Aspiring publishers should start simply, build consistently, preserve future options, and avoid underestimating subscribers' willingness to pay or tolerate breaks.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Innovation5 steps

Build With, Not For: The Product Lab Cohort

Stand up a permanent invite-only user cohort so no fundamental change ever ships cold.

Read →
Strategy5 steps

The Control Principle Prioritization Filter

When several designs solve the problem, ship the one that leaves your users most in control.

Read →
Entrepreneurship6 steps

The Costly-Signal Subscription Model

Subscribers granted you access to their brain — stop apologising for using it.

Read →
Marketing6 steps

The Curated Peer Recommendation Loop

Grow supply-side discovery by letting creators recommend each other, not by recommending for them.

Read →
Leadership5 steps

The Facilitator-First Ramp for Product Leaders Under a Product Founder

Joining a founder with strong product sense? Spend your first months translating, not deciding.

Read →
Leadership5 steps

Timeless-Customer Team Structure

Organize teams around customers and problems that never end, not around product surfaces that do.

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 17

  • Sachin MongaMentionsToday, my guest is Sachin Monga, who is currently the head of product at Substack.

    “Today, my guest is Sachin Monga, who is currently the head of product at Substack.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter

    “Welcome to Lenny's Podcast. I'm Lenny”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • Alex CornellMentionsI'd started a company called Cocoon about 3 years prior to that with my good friend Alex Cornell.

    “I'd started a company called Cocoon about 3 years prior to that with my good friend Alex Cornell.”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • ChrisMentionsLatchet co-founder and former Substack engineer who helped lead its growth team.

    “Chris is the CEO of Substack and the person you're mentioning.”

    ▶ Watch at ~11:00approx.
  • JayMentionsChris and Hamish and Jay, the founders

    “Chris and Hamish and Jay, the founders, I think really start from a place of principle”

    ▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
  • HamishMentionsChris and Hamish and Jay, the founders

    “Chris and Hamish and Jay, the founders, I think really start from a place of principle”

    ▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
  • Matt TaibbiMentionssome of the early writers on Substack that were really well-established writers

    “you'd have people like Matt Taibbi or Bill Bishop, some of the early writers on Substack”

    ▶ Watch at ~37:00approx.
  • Bill BishopMentionssome of the early writers on Substack that were really well-established writers

    “you'd have people like Matt Taibbi or Bill Bishop, some of the early writers on Substack”

    ▶ Watch at ~37:00approx.
  • Kevin KellyCoinedYou mentioned Kevin Kelly's 1,000 True Fans, which has become this like canonical piece of writing on the internet now.

    “My favorite Kevin Kelly blog post, that's my second favorite. My first favorite is a post that he wrote called You Are Not Late”

    ▶ Watch at ~51:30approx.
  • Marc AndreessenMentionsMark Andre had this visual on some podcasts have just imagined a 100,000 drones just coming out of China just at us.

    “I know Marc Andreessen mentioned this too when he moved to Silicon Valley in the '80s.”

    ▶ Watch at ~52:30approx.
  • Christopher AlexanderCoinedThere's one book in particular by an architect named Christopher Alexander

    “There's one book in particular by an architect named Christopher Alexander, who sadly just passed away earlier this year.”

    ▶ Watch at ~53:30approx.
  • Daryl CooperCoinedThere's this guy named Daryl Cooper who has a podcast on Substack called The MartyrMade Podcast

    “There's this guy named Daryl Cooper who has a podcast on Substack called The MartyrMade Podcast”

    ▶ Watch at ~55:00approx.
  • Ethan StraussMentionsHe writes a Substack called The House of Strauss. He's a basketball writer

    “I've been really excited about Ethan Strauss lately. He writes a Substack called The House of Strauss.”

    ▶ Watch at ~56:00approx.
  • Colin MeloyRecommendsColin Meloy is one of my favorite musicians. He's the lead singer of The Decemberists.

    “It's been really good if you're a fan of The Decemberists, I highly recommend.”

    ▶ Watch at ~56:00approx.
  • Kareem Abdul-JabbarMentionsHe's a great writer.

    “Kareem Abdul-Jabbar just recommended my newsletter in his Substack.”

    ▶ Watch at ~56:30approx.
  • GabrielMentionsGabriel on our design team designed it.

    “Gabriel on our design team designed it.”

    ▶ Watch at ~57:00approx.
  • Dane RathboneMentionsthe product manager on my team, Dane Rathbone, was specifically, I think, the spearhead behind the way that we built it

    “the product manager on my team, Dane Rathbone, was specifically, I think, the spearhead behind the way that we built it”

    ▶ Watch at ~57:00approx.

Resources · 28

  • Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky

    “Welcome to Lenny's Podcast. I'm Lenny and my goal here is to help you get better at the craft of building and growing products.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
  • SubstackUseswebsite · Substack Inc.

    “Substack as a product and a company has changed my life and allowed me to do the work that I do now.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
  • RetoolRecommendssoftware · Retool

    “And that's why I'm such a big fan of Retool, and why I think Retool is so popular.”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:30approx.
  • StytchRecommendssoftware

    “Stytch is on a mission to eliminate friction from the internet. They're starting by making user authentication and onboarding more seamless and more secure.”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:30approx.
  • CocoonCoinedproduct · Sachin Monga and Alex Cornell

    “I'd started a company called Cocoon about 3 years prior to that with my good friend Alex Cornell.”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • SubstackMentionswebsite · Substack Inc.

    “I joined Substack around a year ago now exactly through an acquisition.”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:00approx.
  • FacebookMentionscompany · Meta

    “Alex and I had both worked at Facebook for a number of years”

    ▶ Watch at ~5:30approx.
  • Y CombinatorUsescompany · Paul Graham and co-founders

    “Substack went through Y Combinator.”

    ▶ Watch at ~12:30approx.
  • Substack RecommendationsUsesproduct · Substack

    “at this point 70% of my growth is coming from this one feature.”

    ▶ Watch at ~23:00approx.
  • People You May KnowCoinedproduct · Facebook

    “this thing that we called PYMK, which was people you may know.”

    ▶ Watch at ~25:00approx.
  • Substack RecommendationsCoinedproduct · Substack

    “What if we just ask writers, who do you recommend? And what if we just put that in the subscribe flow”

    ▶ Watch at ~26:00approx.
  • VantaRecommendssoftware · Christina Cacioppo

    “Enter Vanta. Over 3,000 fast-growing companies use Vanta to automate up to 90% of the work involved with SOC 2.”

    ▶ Watch at ~31:00approx.
  • Product LabCoinedother · Substack

    “We actually have now we've set up something called the product lab, which I'm really excited about.”

    ▶ Watch at ~34:00approx.
  • Substack Android appCoinedsoftware · Substack

    “we're going to launch an Android app very shortly.”

    ▶ Watch at ~40:00approx.
  • Substack iPhone appCoinedsoftware · Substack

    “we just launched an iPhone app, I guess now it's been 6 months ago, and it's going really well”

    ▶ Watch at ~40:00approx.
  • Lenny's NewsletterCoinednewsletter · Lenny Rachitsky

    “my newsletter, it's called Lenny's newsletter because that was like the default recommendation when I signed up”

    ▶ Watch at ~42:00approx.
  • JasperUsessoftware · Jasper

    “I was playing with this product that is called Jasper.”

    ▶ Watch at ~45:30approx.
  • Copy.aiMentionscompany

    “And there's also like Copy.ai where it just like I put in the title of the post I was about to write”

    ▶ Watch at ~45:30approx.
  • 1,000 True FansMentionsother · Kevin Kelly

    “Which is exactly, I think it was Kevin Kelly's 1,000 True Fans.”

    ▶ Watch at ~50:00approx.
  • You Are Not LateRecommendsother · Kevin Kelly

    “My first favorite is a post that he wrote called You Are Not Late”

    ▶ Watch at ~51:30approx.
  • The Timeless Way of BuildingRecommendsbook · Christopher Alexander

    “If you're working on something like this, I would highly recommend The Timeless Way of Building by Christopher Alexander.”

    ▶ Watch at ~54:30approx.
  • The MartyrMade PodcastRecommendspodcast · Daryl Cooper

    “There's this guy named Daryl Cooper who has a podcast on Substack called The MartyrMade Podcast that I've gone super deep into lately.”

    ▶ Watch at ~55:00approx.
  • The DecemberistsRecommendsother

    “It's been really good if you're a fan of The Decemberists, I highly recommend.”

    ▶ Watch at ~56:00approx.
  • House of StraussRecommendsnewsletter · Ethan Strauss

    “I've been really excited about Ethan Strauss lately. He writes a Substack called The House of Strauss.”

    ▶ Watch at ~56:00approx.
  • For All MankindRecommendstv show

    “I just finished the latest season of For All Mankind and loved it. So good.”

    ▶ Watch at ~57:30approx.
  • Apple PodcastsMentionssoftware · Apple Inc.

    “you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00:30approx.
  • SpotifyMentionssoftware · Spotify

    “you can subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00:30approx.
  • lennyspodcast.comMentionswebsite · Lenny Rachitsky

    “You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at Lennyspodcast.com.”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00:30approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 3

Hot Take00:00

A Golden Era for Writers on the Internet

Monga argues the internet's economic model has failed writers for its entire history, but paid subscriptions are changing that. Early on, established-but-undervalued writers like Matt Taibbi found their true value on Substack; more recently, people who don't even consider themselves writers are making a living, or a fortune, from a small audience that values their work highly.

  • The ad-based model has been terrible for supporting great writing online
  • Early Substack wins came from established writers who were being undervalued
  • Now non-'writers' can earn a living from a small, high-paying audience
  • You don't need millions of viewers or attention games, just people who value the work

“I really think that we're just starting into this golden era of what it might mean to be a writer on the internet.”

Sachin Monga · 00:00

“The economic model for supporting great writing on the internet has been generally pretty terrible for like the entirety of the internet's history.”

Sachin Monga · 00:00
#substack#creator economy#subscriptions#writing
Hot Take49:00

Subscribing Is a Costly Signal, Not a Follow

Monga argues a common writer mistake is worrying too much about how their audience perceives them, whether about frequency, charging, or taking a vacation. Paying subscribers are forgiving and want to support you. He frames subscribing as a heavyweight, costly signal, unlike mashing 'follow' on Twitter, so a subscriber is essentially granting the writer access to their attention, including trusting the writer's recommendations.

  • Writers overworry about frequency, charging, and taking breaks
  • Paying subscribers are forgiving and genuinely want to support you
  • Subscribing is heavyweight and costly, unlike a lightweight follow
  • A subscriber grants the writer real access to their attention and trust

“Subscribe as like an action is pretty heavyweight. It's like a costly signal”

Sachin Monga · 49:00

“If someone is subscribed to you, they're kind of granting you right access to their brain.”

Sachin Monga · 49:00
#creators#audience#psychology#subscriptions
Hot Take51:30

We Are Not Late: The Internet Is Still Early

Building on Kevin Kelly's essay 'You Are Not Late,' Monga argues that despite feelings that the internet's big battles were won by Facebook and Google, we are extremely early in how the internet will play out. He finds it energizing that getting to shape the next 10 to 20 years is available now, and compares the sentiment to Marc Andreessen thinking he'd missed the tech gold rush in the 1980s.

  • Kevin Kelly's 'You Are Not Late' argues we're lucky to be early on the internet
  • Feelings that Facebook and Google 'won' are wrong; it's still the beginning
  • Shaping the next 10 to 20 years of the internet is available right now
  • Marc Andreessen thought he'd missed the tech gold rush in the '80s, at its very start

“we are so early when it comes to how the internet will play out”

Sachin Monga · 52:00
#internet#optimism#kevin kelly#opportunity

Explainer· 3

Explainer17:30

Prioritization Is Different at Facebook vs a Startup

Monga explains that at Facebook, prioritization wasn't about sequencing (do this now, that later) but about hard trade-offs, since one tiny rectangle serves so many people that shipping one thing can permanently harm another. At a startup like Substack, the main variable is time: you can do this now and that later, though sequencing still matters because early moves unlock future ones.

  • Facebook's core app solves many problems in one rectangle, making PM work about managing trade-offs
  • At Facebook, doing one thing can mean you can't do another thing at all, forever
  • At a startup, time is the main variable: this now means that later
  • Sequencing matters because an early move can unlock a later capability

“doing this thing might mean we can't do this other thing at all.”

Sachin Monga · 18:00

“whereas at at a startup, a lot of it is time. Time is the main variable.”

Sachin Monga · 19:00
#prioritization#product management#facebook#tradeoffs
Explainer20:00

Substack Prioritizes by a 'Control' Principle

Monga says Substack's founders start from a principle about how the internet should work: people, not ad-powered public squares, should control their destiny. That translates into writers controlling how they deliver work and readers controlling their experience. When choosing between ways to build a feature, all else equal, Substack picks the version that preserves the most control.

  • The founding opinion: people should control their destiny online more than in the ad era
  • Writers control delivering their best work on their terms and monetizing directly
  • Readers should have agency over their experience, unlike opening TikTok
  • When options are equal, choose the one that preserves more control

“It starts with like an opinion for how the internet should work, where people should be in control over their destiny”

Sachin Monga · 20:30
#strategy#principles#prioritization#substack
Explainer32:30

'Build With Writers, Build With Readers'

Monga describes an operating principle for shipping responsibly: any fundamental change to how Substack works is built with a small group of real writers first. For recommendations, they mocked it up, called ~10 interested writers, and ran a pilot rather than just shipping. They've since formalized this into a 'product lab' of ~100 invite-only writers, and what ships on day one often looks very different from the original idea.

  • Fundamental changes are validated with a small group of real writers before broad rollout
  • For recommendations they mocked it up and ran a pilot with about 10 writers
  • The 'product lab' is an invite-only group of ~100 bleeding-edge writers
  • What ships on day one tends to differ a lot from the pre-pilot idea

“we call it build with writers, build with readers.”

Sachin Monga · 32:30

“often the thing that we end up shipping on day one tends to be pretty different from what we had in mind before we went…”

Sachin Monga · 34:30
#product development#user research#pilots#process

Story· 1

Story23:30

How the Substack Recommendations Feature Was Born

Monga recounts noticing organic cross-Substack discovery through guest posts and commenter profiles. Rejecting a Facebook-style 'here are Substacks you might like' algorithm because it violated the control principle, the team asked the maximally writer-controlled question: just ask writers who they recommend and put it in the subscribe flow. CEO Chris Best was skeptical it could work given how many steps had to succeed, but it took off fast.

  • Readers were already discovering Substacks organically via guest posts and commenter profiles
  • An algorithmic 'people you may know'-style unit worked at Facebook but broke the control principle
  • The maximal-control version: just ask writers who they recommend, in the subscribe flow
  • Chris was skeptical because writers had to opt in, pick good people, and surface enough reach
  • It created a viral goodwill loop as recommended writers got notified of incoming readers

“What if we just ask writers, who do you recommend?”

Sachin Monga · 26:00

“Chris's reaction to that originally when that idea came up was that's probably just going to be really hard to pull off”

Sachin Monga · 26:00
#growth#recommendations#product#virality

Q&A· 2

Q&A10:30

How to Be a PM Under a Very Product-Minded Founder

Asked how to work as head of product when the founder (CEO Chris Best) has strong product sense, Monga says he first treated his role as a facilitator rather than a decision maker. The core problem when the company outgrew a single weekly meeting was that Chris lost sight of what teams were doing and teams lost the founder's vision, so Monga focused on closing that context gap to build mutual trust.

  • Start as a facilitator, not a decision maker, when the founder is product-strong
  • The failure mode: founder loses track of teams, teams lose the founder's vision
  • Fixing the context gap lets teams start 'modeling' the founder
  • Trust is built through weekly start-of-week and end-of-week check-ins and reps

“the first thing was really treating my role in the beginning more as a facilitator than a decision maker when it comes to product.”

Sachin Monga · 10:30
#product leadership#founders#management#trust
Q&A35:00

How to Handle Bad Press as a Product Leader

Asked how he keeps the team focused amid Substack's frequent, often negative press, Monga says the job is parsing signal from noise. Occasionally something matters for strategy, but he estimates about 90% of the chatter is ultimately a distraction from executing on the vision. His skin thickened at Facebook, where his own projects were often covered negatively, teaching him to keep his head down and keep shipping.

  • The main task with press is separating the rare real signal from the noise
  • About 90% of chatter about Substack is ultimately a distraction to the product team
  • Working through Facebook's negative press cycles built resilience
  • The lesson: keep your head down, keep shipping, because that's what matters

“The whole thing here is just like parsing out the signal from the noise.”

Sachin Monga · 35:30

“90% of the chatter about Substack is going to probably ultimately just be a distraction to our product team”

Sachin Monga · 35:30
#leadership#media#focus#culture

Tool· 1

Tool53:00

Book Rec: The Timeless Way of Building

Monga recommends architecture and urban-planning books as the most instructive for his product career, since people have spent thousands of years learning to build spaces for human interaction. His top pick is Christopher Alexander's 1970s book The Timeless Way of Building, which he buys in bulk to give away. Its premise, that mass-produced cookie-cutter houses fail because builders became different from occupants, parallels how ad-driven incentives produce suboptimal internet experiences.

  • Architecture and urban planning books are Monga's most instructive product reads
  • Top pick: 'The Timeless Way of Building' by Christopher Alexander, which he buys in bulk to give away
  • Alexander's premise: mass-produced houses fail because builders differ from occupants
  • Parallel to the internet: complicated incentive structures lead to suboptimal user experiences

“It's called The Timeless Way of Building. And this is the book that I recommend to the most people.”

Sachin Monga · 53:30
#books#architecture#product#recommendations

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway08:30

Organize Product Teams Around Customers, Not Surfaces

Substack structures its three product teams around customer types (writers, readers, growth) plus a systems team, rather than around product surfaces like 'the app' or 'podcasting.' Monga is surprised how stable this has stayed versus the constant reorgs he saw at Facebook, and credits it to orienting around timeless customer problems that are never fully 'done.'

  • Teams map to customers: writer team, reader team, growth team, plus a systems team with no PM
  • Surface-based teams (app team, dashboard team) get reorganized constantly
  • Customer-oriented missions are timeless: you're never done serving writers
  • Substack went from zero PMs to four PMs plus full-stack product teams

“the teams aren't oriented around product surfaces.”

Sachin Monga · 08:30

“We have teams that are oriented around customers and solving a bit of a timeless customer problem.”

Sachin Monga · 09:00
#org design#product teams#management
Takeaway14:30

In High Growth, Your Process Is Always About to Be Obsolete

Monga's biggest challenge is that any process you perfect becomes obsolete the moment you succeed and grow 2x. Rather than chasing a perfect planning or execution cadence, he only cares whether the team is getting better every week and month. This requires a personality comfortable being humbled and not knowing what it's doing, which isn't for everyone.

  • Whatever process you figure out will soon be obsolete because growth changes the needs
  • The only real question: are we getting better every week, month, and year?
  • Doing high growth well means not knowing what you're doing much of the time
  • This role suits a personality that's okay being humbled constantly

“whatever our process is, we're never going to have a perfect one and even if we did, it would soon be obsolete”

Sachin Monga · 14:30

“High growth companies doing the thing well means that you're not going to know what you're doing.”

Sachin Monga · 15:00
#startups#process#growth#management
Takeaway27:00

The Real Impact of Substack Recommendations

Monga shares that recommendations have driven millions of new subscriptions across tens of thousands of writers, and are one piece of broader network-driven discovery. More than one in three new Substack subscriptions and roughly one in ten paid subscriptions now come from the Substack network. Lenny notes 70% of his own growth comes from this single feature.

  • Recommendations have driven millions of new subscriptions for tens of thousands of writers
  • More than 1 in 3 new subscriptions come from the Substack network
  • Around 1 in 10 paid subscriptions come from the network
  • For Lenny personally, 70% of growth comes from the recommendations feature

“more than one in three new subscriptions across Substack are coming from the Substack network, and around one in 10 paid subscriptions now, too.”

Sachin Monga · 27:30

“at this point 70% of my growth is coming from this one feature.”

Lenny · 23:00
#growth#metrics#recommendations#network effects
Takeaway40:30

Advice for New Writers: Just Start and See What Happens

Monga's top advice for anyone considering a newsletter is simply to start, gather a few subscribers, write one or two things, or post video or audio if writing isn't your thing. He warns that being locked into a single platform where you can't reach or monetize your audience deterministically is a tenuous place to be. Lenny confirms this is exactly how his own newsletter began, with no plan and low stakes.

  • Just start: gather subscribers, post a link, write or record one or two things
  • If you're not a writer, try video or audio turned into a podcast
  • Being locked into one platform you don't control is a tenuous position
  • Lenny started 'Lenny's Newsletter' with no plan, using the default name Substack suggested

“My first piece of advice would be to just start it and see what happens.”

Sachin Monga · 40:30
#advice#getting started#creators#newsletters