LLenny's Podcast
← All episodes
Jason Shah (Airbnb, Amazon, Microsoft, Alchemy)18 September 2022

Building a meaningful career

7Frameworks
15Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Hot Take· 3

Hot Take09:00

Why Web3 Is In Its Strongest Position Despite Crypto Winter

Recorded during the mid-2022 crypto downturn, Jason argues Web3 is actually healthier than ever. He separates the price crash and financial scandals from the underlying build activity, pointing out the term 'Web3' is barely a year old and that new technologies rarely mature in a straight line.

  • The 'Web3' label has only existed in popular lexicon for about a year, even though crypto is over a decade old
  • Price drops and financial-mismanagement scandals are separate from product progress
  • New technologies (internet, AI, QR codes) all matured through non-linear adoption cycles
  • Web3 is especially volatile because so much of it was financialized from the outset

as much as i'm a techno optimist i'm also a realist and with that being said i genuinely believe web 3 is in the strongest…

Jason Shah · 09:00
#web3#crypto#market-cycles
Hot Take17:00

How Web3 Products Got Huge Without the PM Playbook

Jason's biggest surprise in Web3 is how large products have scaled without traditional product managers or the last 20 years of internet product playbooks. He cites Uniswap out-trading Coinbase on some days with a fraction of the headcount.

  • Uniswap has done more daily volume than Coinbase on certain days with ~100 people vs 5,000+
  • NFT communities like Bored Ape are building metaverse projects that rival older digital games
  • Products can travel far without traditional product structure or resources
  • Jason still believes PMs add strong value, but the growth without them is striking

uniswap has done more daily volume on certain days than coinbase and your swap is about 100 people versus five thousand plus at coinbase right

Jason Shah · 17:00

incredibly surprising to see how far products can get without the product playbooks and resources that somebody who's worked in the internet space from the…

Jason Shah · 17:30
#web3#product-management#scaling
Hot Take46:30

Ladder vs Map: A Different Way to Think About Your Career

Jason offers a mental model for career choices: the 'ladder' person chases title, power, and salary, while the 'map' person goes wherever is most interesting. He compares his career to travel and says he'd rather live an interesting life than a comfortable one, using a deathbed test for clarity.

  • Ladder = more influence, power, higher title; Map = go wherever's interesting
  • He thinks of career like travel, embracing discomfort for the story and growth
  • The deathbed test: you'll care about the products you built, not your LinkedIn
  • People are intentional in the micro (next title, salary) but unintentional about the macro

the framework i like is ladder versus map

Jason Shah · 46:30

i care more about living in a really interesting life than let's say a good or comfortable life

Jason Shah · 47:30
#career#mental-models#decision-making

Explainer· 2

Explainer13:00

Why Web3 Teams Are Finally Hiring Product Managers

Jason updates his earlier view that early-stage Web3 needs fewer PMs. As products mature and markets get competitive, he's seeing serious PM hiring across seniority levels from firms like Uniswap, Gemini, and OpenSea, because product becomes a durable competitive advantage once token hype fades.

  • Teams are hiring product leaders at every level: PM, senior PM, director, VP, CPO
  • Uniswap hired from Meta; Gemini and OpenSea are hiring PM talent too
  • Product maturity and complexity make the PM role far more useful over time
  • A moving token can drive early adoption, but 'first principles' reassert themselves

i actually am seeing things change a lot and you know one thing in web3 if one learns nothing is the ability to admit when…

Jason Shah · 13:00
#web3#product-management#hiring
Explainer1:00:30

Treat Hiring Like a Business: Marketing, Sales, and Product

Jason maps hiring onto three business functions. Marketing is your company and personal brand before a candidate walks in; sales is understanding what actually motivates them; and product is treating the role itself as something iterative and moldable, rather than a static job description posted once and forgotten.

  • Marketing: what candidates already infer about your company and whether they'll even interview
  • Sales: understand the one or two things a candidate really cares about, not a hard sell
  • Product: job descriptions are like product specs but are never iterated after posting
  • Mold roles flexibly around great people rather than just filling a headcount box

i like to think of it in very similar motions to a business where i think there is a marketing aspect to it there's a…

Jason Shah · 1:00:30

job descriptions are almost like product specs right

Jason Shah · 1:02:00
#hiring#recruiting#product-management

Story· 2

Story18:30

Why One Year at Amazon Shaped Jason More Than Anywhere Else

Despite only being at Amazon for about a year post-acquisition, Jason says it left the biggest mark on how he does product because you can't divorce product from business there. He credits leadership principles like ownership and being vocally self-critical, and notes his shortest tenure produced some of his greatest learnings.

  • At Amazon you can't be a PM without thinking about revenue, growth, and go-to-market
  • Cultures differ: Google (engineering), Facebook (product), Airbnb/Pinterest (design), Amazon (product + business)
  • Ownership and being 'vocally self-critical' are leadership principles that stuck with him
  • Non-linear correlation: his shortest stint delivered his greatest learnings because he was intentional

i would say if i had to pick amazon even though i was only there for about a year after the acquisition

Jason Shah · 18:30

my time there was one of the shortest but my learnings were some of the greatest because i was really intentional

Jason Shah · 21:00
#amazon#career#product-management
Story39:00

How Reframing 'Concierges' as 'Trip Designers' Fixed a Stalled Team

Jason retells an Airbnb story about the Luxury Retreats integration, where a chat product was ballooning with features and morale was low. A persuasive leader reframed the concierge role as 'trip designers,' aligning everyone on a simpler, more elegant experience, which cut scope and lifted the team. He argues 'pushback' is a self-defeating word.

  • The word 'pushback' primes a negative, disagreement-first mindset
  • Better to understand the shared goal and align around it than to say 'no'
  • The Luxury Retreats chat product was over-scoped with features and low morale
  • Reframing concierges as 'trip designers' aligned the team on a simpler, on-brand experience with less scope

pushback is you know it i couldn't imagine a word more viscerally that makes you feel like you're sort of physically going against what somebody…

Jason Shah · 39:00

when we took a step back it was reimagined as trip designers not concierges

Jason Shah · 41:00
#airbnb#influence#reframing#product-management

Tool· 1

Tool1:07:00

The Book Jason Recommends Most to PMs

In the lightning round, Jason recommends 'The Hard Thing About Hard Things' as the book he suggests most to product managers, because it teaches them to 'chew glass' and care about outcomes the way a CEO must. He also points PMs toward Polygon, Solana, and MoonPay in Web3.

  • Top book recommendation: The Hard Thing About Hard Things
  • It teaches PMs to care about outcomes like a CEO does
  • Web3 companies worth exploring: Polygon, Solana, MoonPay
  • Favorite interview question: 'What is a risk you regret not taking, why, and what did you learn about yourself?'

i think it teaches product managers to chew glass and care about outcomes the way that a ceo has to

Jason Shah · 1:07:00
#books#recommendations#product-management

Takeaway· 7

Takeaway11:00

The Only Way to Keep Morale Up Is to Make Progress

Jason says that during downturns, extrinsic motivators like speeches or free crypto don't sustain a team. What actually keeps people motivated is visible progress, shipping, and focusing on product and customers. He ties it to Airbnb's revenue drawdown during COVID.

  • No speech or extrinsic reward reliably maintains morale
  • People get excited when they see real progress and shipping
  • Airbnb kept building through an 85-90% revenue drop by focusing on product and customers
  • Hiring people motivated for the right reasons compounds this effect

i think that the only way to maintain morale is to make progress

Jason Shah · 11:00
#leadership#morale#team-management
Takeaway22:30

Amazon's Writing Rule: Never Say 'Great,' Use Numbers

Jason shares the writing discipline Amazon drills into employees: banned vague words like 'great,' numbers over adjectives, and ruthless cutting. The point isn't saving ink, it's forcing clarity of thought so every trade-off is intentional.

  • Never write the word 'great' in an Amazon press release; be specific about the benefit
  • Use numbers more than adjectives, and apply strict concision
  • 'Kill your darlings': cut relentlessly until every word carries weight
  • Fewer words force clearer thinking, not just shorter documents

you should never write the word great in an amazon press release you should write user friendly in xyz way and will save customers time…

Jason Shah · 22:30

there's a phrase i can't remember it's either mark twain or or another famous writer who said kill your darlings right cut cut cut

Jason Shah · 24:00
#writing#communication#amazon
Takeaway30:00

Three Things the Best Leaders Have in Common

Having observed leaders like Bezos, Chesky, and David Sacks, Jason distills great leadership into three traits: nothing is above them (humility), they're deep in the details (craft), and they adapt to new information. He illustrates with Bezos's famous question-mark emails and Sacks personally running product reviews.

  • Nothing is above them: leaders who think they're 'above' a spec or a SQL query make a mistake
  • In the details: David Sacks ran product reviews himself instead of delegating to a director
  • They adapt: the best leaders shift gears with new information rather than clinging to a playbook
  • Humility plus craft, combined with adaptability, is a potent combination

so what i've seen is nothing is above them they're in the details and they adapt to new information and new situations

Jason Shah · 32:00
#leadership#management
Takeaway37:30

Drive Responsibility, Not Just Accountability

Jason contrasts top-down accountability (performance reviews) with a genuine sense of ownership. When people feel a company or product is truly theirs, they push back, propose ideas, and fix things at 3am, because they're invested rather than merely assigned.

  • Accountability is often top-down: performance reviews and enforcement
  • Responsibility is felt ownership: 'this is my company, my product, my office floor'
  • Owners push back and propose ideas because they feel invested
  • At Alchemy, engineers fix things at 3am because they're committed to the codebase

you see an engineer hop in and fix something at 3am because they feel committed to the code base

Jason Shah · 38:00
#leadership#ownership#culture
Takeaway44:00

To Influence a Founder, Work Backwards From What They Want

Jason describes convincing skeptical founders to hire for a novel 'growth operations' role by connecting it to what they care about most: winning. Instead of defending a resume or role definition, he framed it around the end goal, which he says always brings clarity.

  • Don't make a rational argument about the role in a vacuum; connect to the founder's core drive
  • His founders care most about winning and growing faster, so he pitched the hire that way
  • Like sales, listen for the one or two things the other person actually cares about
  • Focusing on the end, not the means, brings clarity

oh you want to win we want to grow faster awesome this is the way to do it and that's how we're going to actually…

Jason Shah · 44:00

the end always brings a lot of clarity in my experience

Jason Shah · 44:30
#influence#founders#communication
Takeaway55:30

The Underrated Value of Staying Somewhere for Years

As a counterbalance to constant exploration, Jason argues some of tech's real gems are people who stay four to seven years. They accrue institutional knowledge nobody else has and stabilize culture, which is impossible amid constant turnover. He describes himself as 'serial monogamous' with work.

  • The 'map' shouldn't mean hopping through 180 companies at a month each
  • Long-tenured teammates hold institutional knowledge no one else has
  • They have a positive cultural impact that churn destroys
  • A 30-40 year career leaves room for several long, committed 5-10 year runs

some of the absolute sort of like gems if you will in silicon valley in tech are the teammates that are willing to stay around…

Jason Shah · 55:30
#career#tenure#culture
Takeaway1:04:00

The Most Important PM Skill: Defining Which Problem Matters

Asked for the single most valuable skill for advancing PMs, Jason names understanding and defining what problem actually matters. It cascades into everything: what to build, whether the team is motivated, and even the business model. He grounds it in his education startup, where the core problem shaped free pricing and a curriculum-first focus.

  • Defining the right problem affects what you build and whether the team is motivated
  • At Alchemy, 'should we build an SDK or an NFT API' resolves to 'what problem are we solving'
  • His education startup's problem (low-income access to college) drove free pricing and college-sponsorship monetization
  • It's a cliche precisely because it has proven so true for so long

understanding and defining what problem matters is the most important skill that i think i've taken away

Jason Shah · 1:04:00
#product-management#career#problem-definition