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Meltem Kuran Berkowitz (Head of Growth)27 August 2023

An inside look at Deel’s unprecedented growth

9Frameworks
15Insights

Episode overview

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz explains how Deel’s growth engine began with low-cost, high-intent channels such as Reddit, Quora, partnerships, content, and SEO before expanding into paid acquisition. She details an operational SEO system that ranks keywords by search volume and buying intent, while emphasizing that useful content must fully answer the searcher’s question. The conversation also covers revenue-accountable growth teams, incremental hiring, product quality, Deel’s global-work positioning, and a culture built around urgency, optimism, customer care, and flexibility.

Key ideas

  • Find places where prospective customers are already asking specific questions, answer them genuinely, and introduce the product only after providing value.
  • Build the growth foundation sequentially: a clear and fast website, discoverability and useful content, then paid acquisition.
  • Prioritize SEO topics by both search volume and customer intent, and write content that ends the search instead of merely repeating keywords.
  • Evaluate paid channels by downstream conversion, revenue, and payback—not lead volume alone—and refresh creative before fatigue sets in.
  • For early growth hires, test whether candidates will own full-funnel revenue outcomes and can devise strategies at zero, moderate, and larger budgets.
  • Hire one leader to validate each growth hypothesis before expanding a team, reducing the risk of staffing around unproven plans.
  • Acquisition cannot compensate for a weak product; Deel’s product and engineering investment made its marketing promises credible.
  • Deel’s culture combines “Deel speed,” default optimism, customer responsibility, and flexibility over where and when employees work.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Leadership5 steps

Deal Speed and Default Optimism

Codify the values you already have, not the ones you wish you had.

Read →
Leadership6 steps

Little Hands Growth Hiring

Hire on the KPI they'll commit to and their willingness to do the tiniest job.

Read →
Marketing5 steps

Long-Tail Paid Diversification

After the big four ad platforms, buy the dozens of small ones nobody bothers to set up.

Read →
Marketing5 steps

Payback-First Channel Measurement

Judge channels on closed-won revenue one year out, never on lead volume.

Read →
Marketing5 steps

Question-First Cheap Channel Playbook

Find where your buyers ask their questions, answer them honestly, and let the answer sell.

Read →
Strategy5 steps

Skeleton Before the Makeup

Sequence early growth investment from site fundamentals up to awareness — never the reverse.

Read →
Marketing5 steps

The 'Is The Search Over?' Content Standard

Judge every article by one question: after reading it, does the reader go back to Google?

Read →
Marketing5 steps

The Traffic Light Keyword System

Rank every keyword by buying intent, not volume — then work greens down before touching yellows.

Read →
Strategy4 steps

The Trusted-Advisor Partner Test

Shared audience is not enough — partner only where your buyer already goes for this specific advice.

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 5

  • Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter

    “welcome to Lenny's podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
  • Meltem Kuran BerkowitzMentionsHead of growth and an early employee at Deel.

    “today my guest is Melton coron Berkowitz Melton is head of growth at deal”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:50approx.
  • Frank SlootmanMentionsI didn't find the words for until I was listening to something by Frank slootman

    “what I think of is Frank slootman I think is his name the founder of snowflake has this book called amp it up”

    ▶ Watch at ~59:42approx.
  • Clayton ChristensenCoinedManagement thinker admired by Eric Ries whose endorsement of Ries's work was personally important to him.

    “how will you measure your life by Clay Christensen that's one I recommend”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:06:08approx.
  • Judy BlumeMentionsmentioned

    “you can read Judy Bloom for all I care but just read fiction”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:06:39approx.

Resources · 36

  • Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky

    “welcome to Lenny's podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts”

    ▶ Watch at ~0:30approx.
  • RampMentionscompany · Eric Glyman and Karim Atiyeh

    “possibly even faster than ramp which we delved into in a previous episode”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:03approx.
  • Bench AccountingMentionscompany

    “before joining DLC was leading marketing efforts at Branch Accounting”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:23approx.
  • MiroUsessoftware · Miro

    “I actually used Miro to collaborate with the Miro team on creating my own board”

    ▶ Watch at ~2:45approx.
  • LMNTMentionsproduct · LMNT

    “element is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with a science-backed electrolyte ratio”

    ▶ Watch at ~3:11approx.
  • DeelUsescompany

    “dealers payroll HR and compliance platform for Global teams”

    ▶ Watch at ~4:37approx.
  • RedditUseswebsite · Steve Huffman, Alexis Ohanian, and Aaron Swartz

    “when you go to Reddit and you set up those keywords to be tracking what people ask certain questions”

    ▶ Watch at ~8:04approx.
  • SlackMentionssoftware · Slack Technologies

    “as long as we're not talking about a closed slack Community maybe a conversation happening in DMS”

    ▶ Watch at ~8:38approx.
  • AirbnbMentionscompany · Brian Chesky, Joe Gebbia, and Nathan Blecharczyk

    “Airbnb is a little bit of an example where they went kind of went to Craigslist”

    ▶ Watch at ~10:04approx.
  • CraigslistMentionswebsite · Craigslist

    “Airbnb is a little bit of an example where they went kind of went to Craigslist”

    ▶ Watch at ~10:04approx.
  • UberMentionscompany · Uber

    “Uber pull people off Craigslist lift so many companies just like piggybacked off Craigslist”

    ▶ Watch at ~10:12approx.
  • LyftMentionscompany

    “Uber pull people off Craigslist lift so many companies just like piggybacked off Craigslist”

    ▶ Watch at ~10:12approx.
  • TwitterUseswebsite · Twitter

    “Twitter is a great place people ask questions oftentimes to their communities”

    ▶ Watch at ~13:03approx.
  • DiscordMentionssoftware · Discord Inc.

    “they could be select communities Discord places that you know Founders choose to connect with other Founders”

    ▶ Watch at ~15:04approx.
  • Y CombinatorMentionscompany · Paul Graham and co-founders

    “we have Partnerships with places like the Y combinator”

    ▶ Watch at ~15:14approx.
  • Google SearchUsessoftware · Google

    “if they typed in something to Google and then they read the article that you've published are they going back to Google”

    ▶ Watch at ~16:51approx.
  • Microsoft ExcelUsessoftware · Microsoft

    “then you have an Excel sheet keywords on the left volume on the right”

    ▶ Watch at ~19:07approx.
  • ClearscopeUsessoftware

    “you can use many tools we use clearscope we love it”

    ▶ Watch at ~21:34approx.
  • InstagramMentionssoftware · Meta

    “people don't go to Google for that they go to Instagram they go to influencers”

    ▶ Watch at ~26:06approx.
  • FacebookUsescompany · Meta

    “our paid ads team they spend just as much time running Facebook and Google ads”

    ▶ Watch at ~30:36approx.
  • SpotifyMentionssoftware · Spotify

    “just like Spotify call rail and writer do for theirs”

    ▶ Watch at ~31:56approx.
  • AssemblyAIRecommendscompany · AssemblyAI

    “visit assemblyai.com Lenny to try their API for free and start testing their models”

    ▶ Watch at ~32:05approx.
  • NotionMentionssoftware · Notion Labs

    “I've seen notion do a great job with their out of home ass”

    ▶ Watch at ~33:55approx.
  • Paycheck Protection ProgramMentionsother · United States government

    “the U.S government rolled out the PPP program and there was a lot of questions about do I qualify”

    ▶ Watch at ~38:35approx.
  • Internal Revenue ServiceMentionscompany · United States government

    “it was linked from the irs's website being like if you have questions check out this article”

    ▶ Watch at ~39:07approx.
  • SnowflakeMentionscompany · Snowflake Inc.

    “the founder of snowflake has this book called amp it up”

    ▶ Watch at ~59:47approx.
  • Amp It UpMentionsbook · Frank Slootman

    “the founder of snowflake has this book called amp it up”

    ▶ Watch at ~59:47approx.
  • Silicon Valley BankMentionscompany

    “when the svb was going through the issues that we're going through the entire team had to work on a Sunday”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:00:17approx.
  • NasdaqMentionscompany

    “our photo was going to be on the NASDAQ and we wanted to take a team picture”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:04:04approx.
  • WeWorkUsescompany · Adam Neumann and Miguel McKelvey

    “we have the option to go into you know we works and co-working spaces”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:04:35approx.
  • How Will You Measure Your Life?Recommendsbook · Clayton Christensen, James Allworth, and Karen Dillon

    “how will you measure your life by Clay Christensen that's one I recommend”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:06:08approx.
  • OppenheimerRecommendsfilm · Christopher Nolan

    “favorite recent movie I think along with everybody else was Oppenheimer I thought it was great”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:06:56approx.
  • The Summer I Turned PrettyRecommendstv show · Jenny Han

    “favorite recent TV show was the Summer I Turned Pretty I absolutely love it”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:07:16approx.
  • NuStripsRecommendsproduct

    “one was new strips they're caffeine strips”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:08:09approx.
  • Burning ManMentionsevent

    “there's a camp at Burning Man that's a library and you can borrow books”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:09:02approx.
  • Apple PodcastsMentionssoftware · Apple Inc.

    “you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcast Spotify or your favorite podcast app”

    ▶ Watch at ~1:11:23approx.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 2

Myth Buster16:30

The SEO Question That Beats Keyword-Stuffing: 'Is the Google Search Over?'

The biggest SEO mistake, per Meltem, is treating content as a keyword-stuffing exercise. Instead, ask whether a reader who lands on your article is satisfied or goes back to Google to keep searching — because search engines ultimately reward content that ends the search. Writing to genuinely answer the question makes for content people actually read.

  • Mentioning keywords is fine, but stuffing them is the common failure mode
  • The real test: does the reader return to Google, or is the search over?
  • Search engines want the user to get their answer the fastest way possible
  • Framing content this way naturally produces readable, non-meandering articles

“the biggest mistake people make is they will just shove keywords”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 16:30

“are they going back to Google to continue reading more or is the Google search over”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 17:00
#seo#content#growth
Myth Buster45:00

Deel Is a Global Work Platform, Not a Remote Work Platform

Many assume Deel was born from the pandemic, but it started before COVID; the pandemic simply forced the world into a pilot of its vision. When people worried that returning to offices would kill demand, Meltem's answer was that Deel was never a remote-work company — it's a global-work company. Businesses went back to offices, but now those offices are in Germany, Canada, the US, and France.

  • Deel predates the pandemic; COVID forced a global test of remote and distributed work
  • The remote-work label stuck because of news coverage, not the actual positioning
  • Return-to-office didn't hurt Deel because companies now hire globally across many offices
  • The reframing protected the company against 'remote is over' fears

“we are not a remote work platform we're a global work platform”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 45:00
#positioning#remote-work#b2b

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take23:00

SEO's Biggest Failure: Senior People Think Keyword Grunt Work Is Beneath Them

Meltem argues SEO never stops being time-consuming, and the mistake people make is trying to cut corners to save time. As marketers get more senior they consider hands-on keyword research beneath them, which is exactly when quality drops. If the resource isn't good quality, nobody reads it and the program goes nowhere.

  • You can save time in SEO, but it never stops being time-consuming to do well
  • Cutting corners produces a low-quality resource, which is the whole game
  • Seniority tempts people to skip the one-by-one grunt work — the biggest mistake
  • Same meritocracy as a newsletter: useful content gets read, shared, and ranked

“it never stops being time consuming and to do it well it is going to be time consuming”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 23:00

“people as they become more senior think it's below them and I think that's the biggest mistake”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 23:30
#seo#content#leadership
Hot Take32:00

Why Early B2B Startups Should Skip Awareness Campaigns

Meltem is not a fan of early awareness campaigns for B2B. They take a full month or more of strategy and creative, often don't resonate, and waste time when a startup hasn't figured out its messaging yet. Because B2B products serve a real need, she says tap the bottom of the funnel first — which can take six to eight months — before speaking to the masses. Notion's out-of-home ads worked precisely because they came late, once people already recognized the interface.

  • Awareness creative takes a month-plus and often fails to resonate early
  • Tap ready-to-convert bottom-of-funnel demand first — expect 6–8 months
  • Consumer founders can ignore this; it's specific to early B2B
  • Notion's billboards worked because they ran late, reinforcing a recognizable product interface rather than introducing it

“first tap into the bottom of the funnel and then go out and start speaking to the masses”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 33:00

“I've seen notion do a great job with their out of home ass they didn't do it early on they started doing it much later…”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 33:30
#brand#awareness#b2b#paid-ads

Explainer· 4

Explainer20:00

Why Deel Can't Just 'Rank for EOR' — A Search-Intent Lesson

Meltem uses 'EOR' to illustrate why understanding search intent comes before writing. Type EOR into Google and it returns 'enhanced oil recovery,' not 'employer of record,' because that's what most searchers want. Blindly targeting a keyword without matching what Google already serves means you'll never rank; she also points to the 'people also ask' box as a map of follow-up questions.

  • Google serves results based on majority intent — EOR returns enhanced oil recovery, not employer of record
  • Start by seeing what Google currently surfaces for a term
  • Use the 'next question' suggestions at the bottom of results to plan follow-on content
  • Tools like Clearscope check reading level and keyword placement before publishing

“when you type eor to Google it doesn't give you employer of record it gives you enhanced oil recovery”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 20:00
#seo#search-intent#content
Explainer35:00

Partner With Who People Actually Ask for Advice — Not Just Shared Audiences

Meltem warns that a shared audience isn't enough for a partnership to work; what matters is whether that partner is a trusted resource people turn to for your kind of problem. Deel's VC partnerships worked because founders ask their investors what platforms their other portfolio companies use — whereas a tech company with the same audience but no advisory trust won't drive the same results.

  • Two partner types: shared-audience and trusted-referrer; only the second reliably drives demand
  • Founders ask their VCs which tools portfolio companies trust — so VC partnerships convert
  • A company can share your exact audience yet never be asked for that recommendation
  • Evaluate both audience overlap and referral trust before partnering

“just because you share an audience doesn't mean your audience goes to your partner for guidance when they have this problem”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 35:30
#partnerships#growth#b2b
Explainer48:30

'Little Hands': Everyone Does the Nitty-Gritty Work

Deel has a concept loosely translated from French called 'little hands,' meaning no matter your role or seniority, you must be willing to get into the small, nitty-gritty tasks. In interviews at every level they ask whether a candidate will do the tiniest jobs; the right first answer is 'yes, of course,' not 'I'd hire a team for that.' People who won't get their hands dirty aren't a fit at their stage.

  • 'Little hands' is a core cultural expectation across all seniority levels
  • Candidates are asked directly if they'll do the tiniest jobs
  • The right instinct is to do it yourself first, not delegate immediately
  • Reluctance to do nitty-gritty work signals a poor fit for the company's stage

“no matter who you are where you sit within the organization you need to be willing to get into the little things”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 48:30
#culture#hiring#team-building
Explainer55:00

Deel Speed and Default Optimism: The Culture Behind the Growth

Meltem describes culture as a two-way exchange: what the team brings and what the company gives back. Deel's version of velocity is 'Deel speed' — acting with urgency for customers, answering within 24 hours, shipping products in a tenth of a competitor's time. They also expect 'default optimism' — assuming something can work and then solving for the risks — plus genuinely caring about customers whose livelihoods depend on the platform. In return, Deel gives full flexibility over when and where people work.

  • Deel speed means acting with urgency regardless of team size — 24-hour customer answers, 10x faster product builds
  • Default optimism: ask why it can work, then solve the risks, rather than leading with why it won't
  • Deep customer care because payroll and hiring touch real human livelihoods
  • In exchange, the company gives full flexibility on hours and location
  • The values were formalized about a year in, after the culture already existed in practice

“our version of velocity is something that we call Deal speed is that we want to make sure that we act with urgency”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 55:00

“we have default optimism because we are in a new space”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 56:00
#culture#values#operations

Story· 2

Story10:30

The 'Janky' Reddit Keyword-Tracking Setup Deel Built Day One

On her first day at Deel, Meltem set up keyword alerts to catch people asking about international hiring and HR across Reddit and other communities, then had real team members (never bots) jump in with answers. The tool was a hand-me-down someone else built; she plugged in keywords and it worked. She stresses sizing the audience — a 1,000-person subreddit might win 10 customers, not 5,000.

  • Keyword alerts were live within the first day of her role and are still used today
  • The tool was borrowed and 'janky' — no custom build required
  • Interactions are always human, never automated; whoever jumps in first flags it for the team
  • Judge the upper limit of a community's audience before investing time there

“I did a very janky assistant that's set up I'm not proud of it but it works”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 10:30
#reddit#growth#community#tools
Story38:30

The Blog Post the IRS Itself Linked To

At Meltem's previous company (the author later joined Deel too), the team wrote a thorough resource explaining the PPP program during COVID — who qualifies, how to apply — purely to help their own confused customers. It became so good that the IRS website linked to it as the answer. It drove a burst of growth for a few weeks while people applied for PPP, then faded as the program ended.

  • The post answered urgent PPP eligibility and application questions during COVID
  • It was written to help existing customers, not as a growth play
  • The IRS linked to it as a definitive resource — the ultimate 'search is over' signal
  • Growth spiked for a few weeks, then died out with the program itself

“it ended up being such a good resource that it was linked from the irs's website”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 39:00
#content#seo#growth#story

Q&A· 1

Q&A25:30

Should Every Company Do SEO? Not the Lipstick Sellers

Asked whether every company should invest in SEO, Meltem says no. If you sell a solution to an active problem — as most B2B products do — SEO is worth it. But a direct-to-consumer brand selling lipstick shouldn't lean on SEO, because buyers go to Instagram and influencers, and a brand site won't outrank third-party comparison content anyway.

  • SEO fits products people search for to solve an active problem — typically B2B
  • Consumer goods buyers discover via Instagram and influencers, not Google
  • A first-party brand site rarely ranks for 'best [product] of 2023' comparisons
  • Match SEO investment to whether your category is actually searched

“you probably shouldn't invest in SEO all that much because people don't go to Google for that they go to Instagram they go to influencers”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 26:00
#seo#b2b#consumer#strategy

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway07:00

Cheap Growth = Show Up Where People Are Already Asking Questions

Deel's cheapest early channels came from finding places where potential customers were already asking for help — search, Reddit, Quora, communities — and answering their questions instead of selling to them. Because B2B products are bought to solve an active problem, adding a genuine answer converts far better than a pitch, and the answer keeps working for free over time.

  • B2B buyers have an active problem; they want it solved, not to be sold to
  • Look for wherever your users ask questions: Google, Reddit, Quora, Twitter, niche communities
  • Answering a question online is free and the answer persists for other people to find
  • The least effective approach is 'we solved that, check out our website'; the value-add approach explains the actual solution first

“people don't want to be sold to they want their problems solved”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 07:00
#growth#b2b#channels#community
Takeaway29:30

The Long-Tail Paid Channels Everyone Overlooks

After covering the big four or five ad platforms, Deel invested in long-tail channels — review sites, newsletter ads, podcast ads, and small niche sites with 50–100k monthly visitors. Individually none moves the needle, but stacked together they became roughly 30% of lead flow. They're overlooked because each one has to be set up from scratch, taking as much effort as Facebook or Google.

  • Cover the big four or five ad platforms first, then go long-tail
  • Review sites, newsletter ads, podcast ads, and niche sites each contribute little alone
  • Stacked, the long tail became about 30% of overall lead flow
  • They're neglected because setup is manual and effort-per-channel is high

“if you add them up it diversifies your lead flow such that it kind of ends up being about 30 of your overall kind of…”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 29:30
#paid-ads#growth#channels
Takeaway42:00

Acquisition Channels Are Worthless Without a Product People Keep Using

Meltem underlines that every growth tactic sits on top of a genuinely great product; acquisition channels fail if the product doesn't live up to expectations, especially in B2B where customers won't tolerate crappy software. Deel's product was so strong early on that her team had to tone down its pitch because prospects didn't believe the claims. Her joining advice: ask a young company for its team breakdown — if it's mostly product and engineers, the core is solid.

  • In B2B, a product that fails expectations makes churn inevitable and word spreads fast
  • Deel's product was so capable the team had to tamper down its messaging to be believed
  • When evaluating a young company to join, ask about the team's composition
  • A heavy product-and-engineering team signals a durable core; six salespeople and two engineers is a warning sign

“acquisition channels just straight up don't work if you have a product that doesn't live up to the expectation”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 42:00

“ask them what their team breakdown looks like when I joined deal most of the team was product and Engineers”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 43:30
#product#growth#hiring#b2b
Takeaway47:30

Hire Growth People Who Commit to Revenue — and Ask When They Joined Their Famous Employer

Early growth hires had to commit to full-funnel, closed-won revenue KPIs, not just lead counts. Meltem also cautions against being seduced by big brand-name resumes: ask when the person joined that company, because someone who arrived at 5,000 employees with every resource is very different from an early operator. Big-company hires often can't operate with 10% of the resources they're used to.

  • First interview question: what KPIs are you willing to commit to?
  • Look for people who commit to closed-won revenue, not just lead numbers
  • Check when a candidate joined a prestigious company — early operator vs. late arriver
  • Case-study test: ask for strategies at $0, $10k, and $100k budgets to see how they scale and commit

“one of the first questions I would ask people is what are the kpis that you're willing to commit to”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 47:30

“they're not used to operating with ten percent of the resources that they had”

Meltem Kuran Berkowitz · 48:00
#hiring#growth#team-building