01 September 2024

Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product)

8Frameworks

15Insights

Episode overview

Lenny Rachitsky interviews his former Airbnb manager Vlad Loktev about the mindsets and operating practices behind Loktev's rise from individual product manager to leader of Airbnb's core homes business. Loktev argues for aligning work with company priorities, beginning disagreements with inquiry, speaking up with grounded information, and accepting that lower-priority fires must sometimes burn. He also explains how deliberate chaos can unlock intuition, why teams benefit from complementary strengths, and why culture and mission matter more than perfect organizational charts. The conversation closes with a nuanced defense of Airbnb's leadership model and a candid account of recovering from burnout by restoring balance outside work.

Key ideas

Put impact above activity by identifying the company's highest priorities, learning the business drivers, and choosing work that can materially affect them.
Dial up inquiry before advocacy: ask questions, absorb the other perspective, and only then decide whether to argue for a position.
“Poke the bear” after doing the homework—do not self-censor useful dissent merely because senior leaders or founders disagree.
Let lower-priority fires burn, while intervening quickly on major timeline slippage, unresolved strategic disagreement, and senior hiring problems.
Create controlled chaos or extreme constraints when they can force teams to use intuition, test assumptions, and discover non-incremental ideas.
Build teams from people with complementary spikes rather than expecting every individual to be good at everything.
Treat organizational design as an imperfect tradeoff and invest more heavily in people, culture, collaboration, and mission alignment.
Sustained leadership effectiveness requires personal balance; Loktev became more effective after reconnecting with relationships and hobbies.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

Leadership5 steps

Assemble Spikes, Not Well-Rounded People

Hire sharp, complementary spikes instead of developing everyone into generalists

Read →

Strategy5 steps

Impact Above All Else: The Two-Question Priority Loop

Two daily questions, driver-mapping, and back-of-envelope math before any project earns your time

Read →

Communication4 steps

Inquiry Over Advocacy

Dial up questions, dial down your case — then check if you still disagree

Read →

Leadership5 steps

Let Fires Burn (with Three Never-Burn Exceptions)

Agree which problems you let burn this week — and the three that never can

Read →

Innovation5 steps

Manufactured Chaos: The Artificial Time Constraint

When things feel too calm, inject an absurd deadline to force intuition and creative leaps

Read →

Influence5 steps

Poke the Bear

Never self-censor — but poke only after the homework, and only with data

Read →

Leadership5 steps

The Anti-Sell: Hiring by Describing the Worst Day

Tell candidates the worst day at your company in full detail — then ask if they still want to join

Read →

Self-Mastery6 steps

The Serenity Prayer and the Discard Bucket

Two rituals for perfectionists: the Serenity Prayer, and a bucket you cannot un-bin

Read →

People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 6

Vlad LoktevMentionsVlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years and he's the person that I credit most for teaching me
“Today my guest is Vlad Loktev.”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Brian CheskyMentionsBrian chesky at Airbnb there was a whole article where we unpacked this moment in their product development cycle
“GM of the core homes business reporting directly to Brian Chesky managing over a thousand people”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
Ami VoraMentionslegendary longtime came in worked on on our development platform then worked with me on ads
“we had an awesome episode with Ami Vora CPO at Faire”
▶ Watch at ~17:30approx.
Brian CheskyMentionsBrian chesky at Airbnb there was a whole article where we unpacked this moment in their product development cycle
“That's actually something that Brian taught me where I mean, this guy just grew every 6 months.”
▶ Watch at ~29:30approx.
Andrew BosworthMentionsIdentified as Meta's CTO and formerly Facebook's head of ads; he encouraged Deb Liu to publish monthly.
“We had a Boz on the podcast, CTO of Meta”
▶ Watch at ~1:21:00approx.
Lenny RachitskyMentionstoday we've got another very special compilation episode something I've been pulling on more and more with the podcast and the newsletter
“Thank you Lenny. Thank you so much. This was super fun. Thank you for having me on.”
▶ Watch at ~1:36:30approx.

Resources · 24

AirbnbMentionscompany · Brian Chesky, Joe Gebbia, and Nathan Blecharczyk
“Vlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years”
▶ Watch at ~1:00approx.
Words With FriendsUsesproduct · Newtoy / Zynga
“where he grew the game Words With Friends to over 14 million daily active users”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
ZyngaMentionscompany · Mark Pincus
“He's also a senior PM at Zynga where he grew the game Words With Friends”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
Index VenturesMentionscompany
“Vlad recently moved into venture capital as a partner at Index Ventures”
▶ Watch at ~1:30approx.
PendoMentionssoftware · Pendo
“This episode is brought to you by Pendo, the only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application.”
▶ Watch at ~4:30approx.
VantaMentionssoftware · Christina Cacioppo
“This episode is brought to you by Vanta.”
▶ Watch at ~6:00approx.
AirbnbUsescompany · Brian Chesky, Joe Gebbia, and Nathan Blecharczyk
“when we worked on Instant Book together, I think this was like back in probably like 2014”
▶ Watch at ~10:30approx.
Instant BookUsesproduct · Airbnb
“when we worked on Instant Book together, I think this was like back in probably like 2014”
▶ Watch at ~10:30approx.
FaireMentionscompany
“we had an awesome episode with Ami Vora CPO at Faire”
▶ Watch at ~17:30approx.
Serenity PrayerUsesother
“I actually wrote it out on a piece of paper and like on posted notes”
▶ Watch at ~25:00approx.
Serenity PrayerRecommendsother
“So, that highly recommend”
▶ Watch at ~25:30approx.
EppoMentionssoftware · Eppo
“Eppo is a next-generation A/B testing and feature management platform built by alums of Airbnb and Snowflake for modern growth teams.”
▶ Watch at ~46:00approx.
Scaling Through ChaosCoinedbook · Index Ventures
“at Index, we wrote a book Scaling Through Chaos.”
▶ Watch at ~56:00approx.
MetaMentionscompany
“We had a Boz on the podcast, CTO of Meta”
▶ Watch at ~1:21:00approx.
Red RisingRecommendsbook · Pierce Brown
“Red Rising was one of my favorite books”
▶ Watch at ~1:31:30approx.
Silo seriesRecommendsbook · Hugh Howey
“and then the Silo series. Highly highly recommend.”
▶ Watch at ~1:31:30approx.
SiloMentionstv show · Hugh Howey
“What do you think of the TV show version of the Silo series?”
▶ Watch at ~1:31:30approx.
FoundationMentionstv show · Isaac Asimov
“Like Foundation is similar.”
▶ Watch at ~1:32:00approx.
SurvivorRecommendstv show · Charlie Parsons
“The show is not dying. It is actually very fun to watch and there's new twists every single season.”
▶ Watch at ~1:32:30approx.
SurvivorUsestv show · Charlie Parsons
“So, I've probably watched like I think like 35 seasons or so.”
▶ Watch at ~1:32:30approx.
DiscordUsessoftware · Discord Inc.
“I cannot live without Discord. It is one of the products that I use for hours and hours every single day.”
▶ Watch at ~1:33:00approx.
Gobblet GobblersUsesproduct · Blue Orange Games
“It's actually a like pseudo board game called Gobbler. It's an advanced version of Tic-Tac-Toe.”
▶ Watch at ~1:33:00approx.
LinkedInUseswebsite · LinkedIn
“Hit me up if you want to chat on LinkedIn.”
▶ Watch at ~1:35:30approx.
Lenny's PodcastCoinedpodcast · Lenny Rachitsky
“You can find all past episodes or learn more about the show at lennyspodcast.com.”
▶ Watch at ~1:37:00approx.

Spot an error or want something removed? Request a correction or removal.

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster1:16:30

What People Get Wrong About Airbnb's 'Top-Down' Approach

Vlad pushes back on the negative connotation of 'top-down.' The stereotype is a leader in an ivory tower making decisions while everyone else is powerless. In reality, in the room with Brian Chesky, Brian asked a ton of questions, listened, and often changed his mind. Vlad never felt unheard - which is why 'top-down' and requiring leaders to be 'in the details' were actually connected.

The ivory-tower stereotype of top-down doesn't match Airbnb's reality
Brian led with questions and listened before forming conviction
Leaders always had the ability to influence and voice direction
Being 'in the details' is required so leaders can inform good decisions
In practice Airbnb operated closer to the middle than pure top-down or bottom-up

“I actually think top-down is this construct that has negative connotations associated with it quite a bit and is often, at least in the context…”
Vlad Loktev · 1:16:30

“the reality was he asked a [ __ ] ton of questions, right?”
Vlad Loktev · 1:17:00

#airbnb#leadership#top-down#decision making#brian chesky

Hot Take· 3

Hot Take18:00

Don't Be Afraid to Poke the Bear

Once he's grounded himself in the truth and done his homework, Vlad refuses to self-censor - even in a room full of execs and founders. He made a promise to himself around 2013-2014 to always voice disagreement, reasoning that the worst outcome is getting fired, which isn't worth fearing. Crucially, poking the bear means bringing data, not just opinion.

Don't self-censor in senior rooms just to avoid being the lone dissenter
Only poke the bear after doing the homework and asking the questions
Frame it as surfacing information to help the group decide, not winning
Bring data and ask 'what would convince you?' rather than making a speech
He's been humbled and proven wrong many times - poking isn't about being right

“I've always told myself don't be afraid to poke the bear.”
Vlad Loktev · 18:00

“what's the worst thing that's going to happen? Like I get fired? Like, why would I even be afraid of that?”
Vlad Loktev · 18:30

#leadership#courage#disagreement#influence

Hot Take57:30

All Org Charts Suck - Stop Overthinking Org Design

Vlad argues every org structure has problems: business units create silos, functional orgs create dependencies and matrix slowness. Reorganizing is rarely the solution to a problem - it's not about the boxes but the people in them and how they work together. His advice to founders: study the options, pick one, then pour energy into people, culture, and process.

Every org construct (business unit, functional, problem-based) has real cons
Business units breed silos; functional orgs breed dependencies and matrix slowness
Reorganizing is rarely the actual solution to a problem
It's about the people in the boxes and how they work together, not the boxes
Pick a structure, then design process around its known weaknesses

“all org charts suck. Like, there is no good org chart. Every single org chart has problems.”
Vlad Loktev · 57:30

“it's not about the boxes and how you configure the boxes, right? It's about the people in those boxes, and it's about how those people…”
Vlad Loktev · 58:30

#org design#leadership#scaling#management

Hot Take1:23:30

The PM-to-Product-Marketing-Manager Move Was Overblown

On Airbnb rebranding product managers as product marketing managers, Vlad felt the news was overblown - many PMs were already doing marketing. The change usefully shed project management into a dedicated program-management function and elevated marketing, making the role more strategic. But he refuses a blanket verdict: whether PMM is right depends on the people and the org, and strong PM-marketers are genuinely rare.

The rebrand felt overblown - PMs were already marketing their products
It shed project management into a dedicated program-management function
It elevated user-centric work and telling the world about what you build
For many it was liberating and made the job more strategic
No blanket rule - good PM-marketers are rare and marketing is its own craft

“it felt a little overblown to me to be honest.”
Vlad Loktev · 1:23:30

“there's no blanket statement in my opinion where it's like PMM is the way or PM plus PMMM is the way. Like I it depends.”
Vlad Loktev · 1:25:00

#product management#airbnb#product marketing#career

Explainer· 1

Explainer37:00

Let Fires Burn - Except the Three You Never Let Burn

Vlad's prioritization motto is 'let fires burn': you can't fix everything, so consciously let some things go poorly to concentrate energy on what matters. He aligned his leadership team every Monday on which fires to let burn, and empowered reports to burn their own. But three fires must never burn: slipping major timelines, disagreement on strategy or vision, and delayed senior hires.

If you're equally engaged on 20 things, you don't actually know what's most important
Kick off each week aligning the team on which fires to deliberately let burn
Let other people burn fires too - it's empowering and forces reprioritization
Never let burn #1: slipping major product-launch timelines (it sets precedent)
Never let burn #2: disagreement on strategy/vision (it spreads like wildfire)
Never let burn #3: a delayed senior hire crossing your desk

“you've got to let fires burn.”
Vlad Loktev · 37:00

“Once timelines slip, you basically establish precedent that timelines are not as important and timelines can always slip.”
Vlad Loktev · 39:30

#prioritization#leadership#focus#management

Story· 3

Story47:30

Chaos Is Good: When Brian Chesky Demanded a Design in 24 Hours

Vlad, a self-described lover of order, learned that inserting chaos can push an org to think creatively. He recounts Brian Chesky saying things felt 'too calm,' then taking a host-onboarding project with a neat multi-week timeline and demanding it be designed in 24 hours. The artificial constraint forced the team to dial up intuition and innovate - though Vlad notes it didn't always work.

A bit of chaos can force creative leaps a calm process never would
Brian felt 'too calm' even when numbers were up and to the right
He compressed a carefully phased timeline into a 24-hour design sprint
The artificial time constraint forced the team to trust intuition
It's not universal - sometimes you genuinely need more time to think

“chaos is good. It chaos is actually great.”
Vlad Loktev · 47:30

“Yeah, I don't care about any of that. We're going to design this in 24 hours.”
49:30

#leadership#creativity#airbnb#chaos#product development

Story1:27:30

Hitting Rock Bottom: Doing Less to Become More Effective

Vlad shares a dark 2018 stretch where he felt overworked, overwhelmed, and feared he was tapping out. He realized so much of his identity was tied to Airbnb that he couldn't separate himself as a human from his work - and had lost friends, relationships, and hobbies. Ironically, once he started spending less time on work and reconnected with family and gaming, he became more centered and far more effective.

In ~2018 he felt overworked, unhappy, and afraid he was tapping out
His identity was so fused with Airbnb he couldn't separate self from work
He'd lost friends, relationships, hobbies, and family time
Spending less time on work made him more centered and more effective
If you're burnt out, do less and lean into your personal life

“so much of my identity was Airbnb and my job that I had trouble separating myself as a human being from my work.”
Vlad Loktev · 1:28:30

“I started spending less time on work and I became way more effective. Because I was just more centered like as a as a person.”
Vlad Loktev · 1:29:00

#burnout#mental health#work-life balance#leadership

Story1:07:00

The Human Tunnel and Making Core Values Live Everywhere

Vlad's most memorable Airbnb moment was the 'human tunnel' on his first day - the entire HQ, founders included, cheering and chanting his name as he ran through. He credits moments like that to intentional culture built on core values. His biggest advice: don't copy others' values, and make yours present everywhere - in hiring, promotions, and physically on the walls. At Airbnb, no matter your impact, you didn't get promoted without exemplifying the core values.

His most memorable moment was the whole company forming a human tunnel on day one
Culture moments like that don't happen organically - they're built intentionally
Don't copy another company's core values; define what matters to yours
Make core values present in hiring, performance reviews, and physically everywhere
No amount of impact earned a promotion without exemplifying the core values
Airbnb had a dedicated, prestigious core-values interviewer team

“my most memorable experience at Airbnb is the human tunnel.”
Vlad Loktev · 1:07:00

“no matter how much impact you made, right? No matter what you did, if you were not also exemplifying core values, you didn't get promoted,…”
Vlad Loktev · 1:10:30

#culture#core values#airbnb#hiring#onboarding

Tool· 1

Tool24:30

Two Mental Tools: The Serenity Prayer and the 'Bucket'

To regulate his mind in the chaos of hypergrowth, Vlad used two psychological tools. He wrote out the Serenity Prayer on paper and read it every other day to separate what he could control from what he couldn't. He also kept a physical 'bucket': he'd write down a frustration on paper, crumble it, and throw it away - with a rule that nothing could be taken back out.

The Serenity Prayer reframes what is and isn't within your control
He physically wrote it on posted notes and reread it every other day
The 'bucket': write a frustration down, crumble it, throw it away
The rule - once it's in the bucket, you can't take it back out
He'd even open 1:1s by asking a frustrated report 'what are we throwing in the bucket?'

“Grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to…”
Vlad Loktev · 25:00

“And the rule was once I threw something in the [ __ ] bucket, I couldn't take anything out of the [ __ ] bucket.”
Vlad Loktev · 26:00

#mental health#leadership#perfectionism#burnout#tools

Takeaway· 6

Takeaway08:00

Impact Above All Else: The Two Questions Vlad Asked Every Day

Vlad's core operating mindset wasn't a skill but a relentless focus on impact. Each day he asked what the company's highest priorities were over the next three months and what he could do to make a meaningful dent in them. He argues that if you're not working on a top company priority, you should find a different job.

Ask daily: what are the company's top priorities for the next ~3 months?
Then ask: what can I do to make a meaningful dent in those priorities?
Always align your work with the single top priority of the company
If you're not on a top priority, consider changing jobs - your time is too valuable
Figuring out priorities is usually easy; figuring out how to make impact is the hard part

“my main mindset was impact above everything else. So, like impact, impact, impact, impact.”
Vlad Loktev · 08:00

“if you find yourself in a situation where you're not working on a top priority of the company, like you should probably get a different…”
Vlad Loktev · 09:00

#product management#impact#prioritization#career#mindset

Takeaway15:30

Inquiry Versus Advocacy: How to Actually Change Minds

Instead of walking into conversations advocating for a position, Vlad dials up inquiry and tones down advocacy. He asks a ton of questions first because he assumes there may be something he doesn't know. Only after the other person feels heard and he's absorbed the information does he decide whether to advocate.

Most people advocate immediately and end up talking past each other
Lead with questions that come from genuine curiosity, not a pre-built case
Let the other person feel heard before you push your view
After inquiring, you may change your mind - or advocate with more credibility
A self-check: when you're talking too much, stop and inquire instead

“I inquire first. I dial up inquiry, I tone down my advocacy.”
Vlad Loktev · 15:30

#leadership#communication#influence#decision making

Takeaway30:30

Build Teams of Spikes, Not Well-Rounded Generalists

Vlad rejects the common instinct to make every team member good at everything. Instead he looks for people who spike hard on one crucial thing and assembles a team of different spikes. As an investor he now asks what a founder is spiked on and whether they can hire complementary spikes.

Trying to make everyone good at everything is the wrong mindset
Look for people who spike on something crucial to the team
Assemble different spikes rather than uniform generalists
Spikes only work if everyone inquires and listens to each other
Examples of spikes: domain/marketplace mechanics, sales, process, product design

“instead of trying to find people that are good at everything, you need to look for people who spike on specific things and then add…”
Vlad Loktev · 31:00

#hiring#team building#org design#talent

Takeaway51:00

Thinking 10x Bigger Isn't About Hitting the Goal

On Brian Chesky's habit of asking 'how do we 10x this?', Vlad reframes big goals as a creative exercise rather than a target to fear. The value isn't hitting the number - it's the journey of asking what the world would need to look like for the goal to be true, which pushes you to test extremes and often reveals the right path.

People fear big goals because they fixate on the consequences of missing
The point isn't hitting the goal - it's the creative journey to imagine it
Ask: what would the world need to look like for this to be true?
Big goals push you to test extremes rather than settle for incremental
Working backward from the best possible outcome unlocks bigger ideas

“it's not about hitting the goal, it's about thinking how to hit the goal”
Vlad Loktev · 51:00

#goal setting#strategy#leadership#airbnb

Takeaway53:30

The Anti-Sell: Describe the Worst Day, Then Ask Them to Join

Rather than selling candidates on the upside, Vlad describes what he thinks their worst day at Airbnb would look like - working nights and weekends, strategy changing every three months, projects getting killed, the roadmap becoming a sham - and then still asks if they want to join. The common thread he wants candidates to accept: everything is always changing. It hires fewer but better-fit people.

Set expectations by painting the candidate's likely worst day upfront
He'd warn: nights, weekends, strategy flips every 3 months, roadmap is a sham
The core message - everything changes constantly, be cool with that
This 'un-sell' hires fewer people but the right people
A team hired this way you can rely on for years as things change

“It's like the anti-sell sell where I will share the worst day or what I think you will think as a candidate what the worst…”
Vlad Loktev · 53:30

“you're going to probably like hire fewer people that way, but you will hire the right people.”
Vlad Loktev · 55:00

#hiring#recruiting#culture#expectations

Takeaway1:00:30

Mission Over Domain Expertise When Hiring

Vlad's universal hiring principle is mission over skills. If someone has raw horsepower and deeply loves the mission, they can build whatever skills the job needs. Since strategy, teams, and words all change constantly, the mission is the one constant - and it's what carries people through near-collapse, as Airbnb experienced during COVID.

Mission over domain expertise, mission over skills
Raw drive plus love of the mission lets people build the skills they need
He loves betting on people early in their careers with energy and drive
Everything changes - strategy, teams, words - the mission is the constant
If you don't believe in the mission, you disengage when things get hard

“mission over domain expertise. Basically, mission over domain expertise, mission over skills.”
Vlad Loktev · 1:00:30

“And when [ __ ] gets really, really hard, when your company almost collapses like we did it during COVID, the thing that gets you through those…”
Vlad Loktev · 1:01:30

#hiring#mission#talent#culture

Key ideas

Frameworks in this episode

Assemble Spikes, Not Well-Rounded People

Impact Above All Else: The Two-Question Priority Loop

Inquiry Over Advocacy

Let Fires Burn (with Three Never-Burn Exceptions)

Manufactured Chaos: The Artificial Time Constraint

Poke the Bear

The Anti-Sell: Hiring by Describing the Worst Day

The Serenity Prayer and the Discard Bucket

People & resources mentioned

People · 6

Resources · 24

Insights & moments

⚡Myth Buster· 1

What People Get Wrong About Airbnb's 'Top-Down' Approach

◆Hot Take· 3

Don't Be Afraid to Poke the Bear

All Org Charts Suck - Stop Overthinking Org Design

The PM-to-Product-Marketing-Manager Move Was Overblown

✶Explainer· 1

Let Fires Burn - Except the Three You Never Let Burn

❝Story· 3

Chaos Is Good: When Brian Chesky Demanded a Design in 24 Hours

Hitting Rock Bottom: Doing Less to Become More Effective

The Human Tunnel and Making Core Values Live Everywhere

✦Tool· 1

Two Mental Tools: The Serenity Prayer and the 'Bucket'

▲Takeaway· 6

Impact Above All Else: The Two Questions Vlad Asked Every Day

Inquiry Versus Advocacy: How to Actually Change Minds

Build Teams of Spikes, Not Well-Rounded Generalists

Thinking 10x Bigger Isn't About Hitting the Goal

The Anti-Sell: Describe the Worst Day, Then Ask Them to Join

Mission Over Domain Expertise When Hiring

Myth Buster· 1

Hot Take· 3

Explainer· 1

Story· 3

Tool· 1

Takeaway· 6